00:03:57 joepie91: Ive decided what I want to do with my p2p engine 00:04:06 I want to make a community oriented VPN software 00:04:11 let me interrupt your explanation for a quick message of joy 00:04:12 http://blog.reddit.com/2013/02/new-gold-payment-options-bitcoin-and.html 00:04:18 reddit now accepts bitcoin 00:04:19 carry on :) 00:04:33 A hybrid between darknet systems, and conventional VPNs 00:04:52 with all the usual services builtin to the archecture. 00:05:01 IE: chat, email, eepsites etcv 00:05:03 *etc 00:05:06 see what I mean? 00:05:30 twitchyliquid64: yes, I just don't really see the use 00:05:33 of it 00:05:33 :P 00:05:52 Im trying to address the problem of conventional VPN software being too static, infrastructure oriented, and unable to automagically scale 00:06:32 joepie91: imagine a conventional darknet for say a university. 00:06:38 now imagine it 100x better :P 00:06:45 better how? 00:06:50 I still don't see the advantages over, say, I2P 00:06:53 zero-config 00:07:00 easy to deploy 00:07:02 so is I2P 00:07:04 re: both 00:07:05 i2p == global 00:07:08 so? 00:07:11 VPN = private 00:07:17 separate networks 00:07:20 so? 00:07:51 Security principles. 00:08:05 twitchyliquid64: your explanation is insufficient 00:08:08 what makes this better than I2P 00:08:10 right 00:08:10 in concrete terms 00:08:14 provable clear advantages 00:08:19 not just "I2P is X and this is Y" 00:08:24 actual motivation as to why Y is better 00:08:34 Its not so much better, as different. saying 100x better is a bit of an exageration 00:09:20 With I2P the emphasis is on a global, anonymous network with secured data transfers. 00:09:26 however, in this system 00:09:32 (still got no name yo) 00:10:59 the emphasis is being able to setup a reasonably secure zero-config VPN, which routes optimally and self-repairs. Consider it a hybrid between the uses of I2P, conventional VPN software, and a zero-config/maintainance model. 00:11:19 'self-repairs'? 00:11:34 in a conventional network IP/VPN/whatever 00:11:39 if a switch goes down 00:11:48 you lose the ability to contact hosts 00:12:14 in my network, it detects and rebuilds new routes within a few seconds of a node failure 00:12:24 Ive already implemented and tested that. 00:12:33 I2P... also has that 00:12:34 so basically 00:12:38 the only difference between the two is 00:12:41 I2P doesnt need that 00:12:44 its not packet switched 00:12:45 that your idea 'routes optimally' 00:12:53 its entirely a different framework 00:12:56 while I2P 'routes randomly' 00:13:00 IP and I2P are incomparable 00:13:02 I don't care about the framework, I care about the practical result 00:13:11 the only practical diference is the routing method 00:13:11 your asking an invalid question 00:13:26 I2P DOES NOT have that 00:13:28 as you say 00:13:42 *I 00:13:51 do you need me to explain? 00:14:11 sigh 00:14:17 let me rephrase my question, twitchyliquid64 00:14:23 sure 00:14:25 what *practical* reasons would someone have to use your thingie over I2P 00:14:54 I2P uses java. (come on, thats a good reason :P) 00:15:00 I2P is CPU heavy 00:15:22 I am talking about the I2P protocol 00:15:23 not the router 00:15:33 oh 00:15:36 well 00:15:43 thats just design choices 00:15:56 what is the practical difference? 00:16:22 I2P is more secure mainly 00:16:33 and anonymous 00:16:44 okay, so what would be the point of using your thing? 00:17:27 For your own private network? 00:17:53 Also, throughput and latency on I2P is not great 00:18:26 and why would you want your own network with such an architecture 00:19:12 what if a uni club wants to setup a network for linking all their servers and users? using I2P would introduce additional latency, when all the connections could just be in the same city 00:19:34 What if a corporation wants to make their network available from home? 00:20:00 What if several programmers want to link their home networks together over the internet? 00:21:29 Also, I2P isnt exactly suited for linking IP networks. Sure, it could be done, but I dont know how effective it would be 00:22:42 what if a uni club wants to setup a network for linking all their servers and users? using I2P would introduce additional latency, when all the connections could just be in the same city 00:22:49 then they install openvpn, edit a config for 10 minutes, and are done? 00:23:00 There are problems with OpenVPN 00:23:03 like? 00:23:05 namely how static It can be 00:23:08 if nodes go down 00:23:11 routes become dead 00:23:41 Also, openVPN has the client-server feel 00:24:02 While im not sure about this one, doesnt sound like it could scale diagonally 00:25:27 if nodes go down 00:25:27 routes become dead 00:25:30 ummm.... 00:25:33 round robin DNS? 00:25:50 I'm really not quite sure what problem you're trying to solve that hasn't already been solved.. 00:33:26 *** BLTGeno has quit (Ping timeout) 00:35:19 joepie91: round robin DNS does not solve when switches go down 00:35:50 It will solve when a specific server goes down, by having other servers available 00:36:16 twitchyliquid64: are you not aware of things like BGP? 00:36:27 I really get the idea that you're not sure what problem you're trying to solve 00:36:33 Yepp 00:36:43 if a switch is down, then either A. there is a backup switch and your traffic will be routed over there anyway 00:36:56 or B. there's no backup switch and you have no connection, and no fallover system is going to fix that 00:37:08 Backup switches require configuration 00:37:10 and hardware 00:37:18 you're not reading what I say carefully enough 00:37:21 or B. there's no backup switch and you have no connection, and no fallover system is going to fix that 00:37:28 if you have no connection, you have no connection 00:37:31 why not use your users as a backup switch like my system? 00:37:38 because you have no connection? 00:37:54 like, really, this is how IP already works 00:38:05 well, for starters, this is an overlay netowrk 00:38:09 so thats not an issue 00:38:20 if you have no layer3 connection, your fucked 00:38:25 either way 00:39:03 But if your switch goes down or loses its connection? 00:39:11 then the users act as failover 00:39:36 twitchyliquid64: okay, I have a feeling we disagree on terms here 00:39:38 define 'switch'/ 00:40:11 something which takes packets in the network and routes them towards the destination 00:40:15 NOTE: 00:40:39 switch is not nessesarily for the underlying network, but could also refer to the overlay (VPN) network 00:41:10 that's pretty much the misunderstanding I'm trying to clear up here 00:41:18 which do you mean 00:41:44 *** Ari (Ari@Ari.users.cryto) has joined #crytocc 00:41:57 ok 00:42:27 so in the VPN network, IP addresses are/translatedto 64bit identifiers 00:42:59 every node participating the the VPN network can act as a switch 00:43:31 if a nearby node wants to communicate with x, and there is a node nearby who is decent, the node can send its message via that node 00:43:43 the node that relayed the message is a switch 00:43:46 understand? 00:43:55 yes, but I don't see the practical advantage 00:44:21 the advantage is that you dont have static routes and non-dynamic routing ir:RIP 00:44:29 if a route becomes slow or dead 00:44:31 how often does a VPN network fail 00:44:38 it scales by routing through other means 00:44:42 joepie91: when you need it 00:44:49 I have not experienced such an issue.. 00:45:01 Clearly dont use a big VPN network 00:45:04 if you have one backup VPN server, the chance of things completely failing is practically zero already 00:45:09 this seems like reinventing the wheel 00:45:22 one backup server, just like the IRC network :P 00:46:45 yes, except openvpn + round robin has a proper fallover mechanism 00:46:47 and unraelircd doesn't 00:46:49 unrealircd * 00:46:52 plus VPN doesn't have services 00:47:40 hence the hybrid between VPN and I2P 00:47:48 integrated services and service discovery 00:47:58 feels more li a personalised 'network' 00:49:33 also, most VPNs require quite a bit of configuration 00:49:49 failover requires even more 00:50:30 and if you want it to do the routing automatically, you need to ALSO setup a protocol like ospf 00:52:06 I agree OPenVPN could probably be made to work with a shitload of config, and backup servers, setting up routing protcols like ospf ... 00:52:17 but why not use something that has all those solutions builtin? 00:52:22 and does it all automatically? 00:52:51 yes, there are substantial similarities 00:53:02 * twitchyliquid64 pokes joepie91 00:53:02 twitchyliquid64: that's called an auto-installer 00:53:15 ew 00:53:30 I dont see the aversion you have 00:53:34 to new software 00:53:40 just cause a similar solution exists 00:54:04 twitchyliquid64: I do not have an aversion towards new software 00:54:15 thats the impression your giving 00:54:18 to me 00:54:29 I have an aversion towards putting time into something that isn't really necessary 00:54:36 when there are other things that are necessary 00:54:45 I also have an aversion towards inefficient methods 00:54:54 for example, by writing an install script and config script 00:54:58 you could probably do the exact same with openvpn 00:55:02 in a fraction of the time 00:55:16 thats no fun 00:55:17 also 00:55:23 your talking to the guy 00:55:36 who runs his own custom webserver rather than lighttpd 00:55:39 and his own mail server 00:55:47 in fact all the code on his box is custom 00:55:50 :P 00:56:03 except irssi 00:56:20 *** Ari has quit (No route to host) 00:56:21 *** aHlTat (aHlTat@aHlTat.users.cryto) has joined #crytocc 00:57:26 twitchyliquid64: see, you never specified the 'fun' aspect 00:57:32 if you want to do it for fun, then by all means go ahead 00:57:39 I just don't see a real practical use for it 00:57:39 :p 00:57:51 it has its uses as well :P 00:57:55 I try and focus on that 00:58:09 the practical uses for this would be terribly limited 00:58:13 I'd recommend focusing on the fun aspect 00:58:23 besides, no one has really tried using a p2p packetswitched archtecture for a VPN 00:58:31 it could work really well 00:58:34 (or really badly) 00:58:52 okay, wow, housemate just gave me notes of house meeting.. they are not in comic sans, and not in times new roman, but in a monospace font and nicely formatted 00:58:59 YAY OTHER CAPABLE COMPUTER PEOPLES 00:59:04 yay nonospace 00:59:08 house meeting? 01:00:18 ya 01:00:21 I have to move soon 01:00:24 so we had a meeting 01:00:26 to discuss plans etc 01:00:36 your moving as a group? 01:00:55 maybe, maybe not 01:00:57 undetermined for now 01:00:59 anyway 01:01:01 I should really get back to work 01:01:06 should've done that 30 mins ago 01:01:06 >.> 01:01:10 lol 01:01:11 k 01:01:14 laterzzz 01:22:53 *** Angelina has quit (Ping timeout) 02:05:03 *** T0R_till (T0R_till@cryto-454686D9.compute-1.amazonaws.com) has joined #crytocc 02:06:25 *** T0R_till has quit (User quit: Connection closed) 02:11:01 *** wh1t3r4bb1t (antarctica@wh1t3r4bb1t.users.cryto) has joined #crytocc 02:13:13 Good morning 02:14:27 its evening yo 02:14:37 late evening 02:14:40 :P 02:14:47 hows your CSS coming along? 02:14:59 I took a look at it earlier, it looks fucking amazing <3 02:25:22 bleh 02:25:28 have to wake up at 11AM tomorrow 02:25:29 to clean up shit 02:25:30 :p 02:25:46 leaving tomorrow? D: 02:25:52 no 02:25:59 owners of building are coming to look at it a last time 02:26:00 ah. good 02:26:02 so have to clean up a biot 02:26:03 bit * 02:26:07 ok 02:26:07 probably have to move out on may 1 02:26:17 before * 02:34:18 Thanks for the compliments twitchyliquid64 02:34:28 Household Goods 02:34:28 by Totally Enormous Extinct Dinos 02:34:58 Im doing PDO right now XD 02:52:25 Should I use 512 bit salts? 02:52:31 Hmmm 02:53:19 that seems excessive 02:55:44 128 03:02:25 *** noone (Nijaxor@cryto-28DC3758.cryto.net) has joined #crytocc 03:03:44 loggy, pointer? 03:03:44 http://wire.cryto.net/logs/2013-02-15#T03-03-44 03:26:30 *** AnonyOps (anony_ops@cryto-5167D786.woh.res.rr.com) has joined #crytocc 03:26:52 Life just sucks, I lost the one, I'm giving up she found someone 03:26:52 There's plenty more, girls are such a drag 03:26:59 :) 03:27:31 on valentines day too! 03:28:18 haha yesh 03:28:25 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJKzvrXpf5M 03:28:32 Been listening to this guy 03:28:36 damn you enter 03:28:37 anyhow 03:28:51 been listening to this guy's cover of an awesome song 03:28:59 he does a really good job of it. 03:29:16 Fuck this place, I lost the war 03:29:17 I hate you all, your mom's a whore 03:29:28 A song like that, can be made beautiful by this guy lol 03:37:41 oh also joepie91 03:37:43 sec 03:37:52 http://services.runescape.com/m=news/2007---old-school-runescape-you-vote 03:43:21 AnonyOps: heh 03:43:27 looks like jagex is learning how2community 03:44:51 http://tcx.explodie.org/index.php?title=Main_Page 03:45:03 soon: actual usage 03:46:57 I'm getting much better and quicker about setting up wikis 03:47:08 now I must learn from experts about extra things to do 03:50:41 *** lady-3jane has quit (User quit: Leaving) 03:53:09 @joepie Nah, they only did this cuz they know they'll make mad money from it 03:53:10 you have to be a member to vote 03:53:24 and they want at least 50k votes, but are pushing for 750k 03:54:00 AnonyOps: :) 03:54:11 implying 750k people sign up for members just to vote, which a lot will (including myself most likely), they will get $5,692,500 03:54:18 twitchy hai 03:55:02 not sure why the vote isn't online yet though >:( 03:55:11 I know it's Friday in the UK right now. 03:55:56 Funny though, their site is under so much traffic due to the rapid F5's that their site is going slow haha 03:56:01 *** lady-3jane (lady3jane@lady-3jane.users.cryto) has joined #crytocc 03:57:50 hey 03:57:50 also, going to bed now 03:57:51 AnonyOps 03:57:52 guesswho 03:57:52 Night all! 03:57:55 ooh 03:57:56 D:< 03:57:57 wait 03:58:01 hm... 03:58:03 sec 03:58:04 *** noone has parted #crytocc (None) 03:58:04 *** noone (Nijaxor@cryto-28DC3758.cryto.net) has joined #crytocc 03:58:04 I got this 03:58:05 ooo? 03:58:07 that help? 03:58:12 no 03:58:16 i wish 03:58:17 i love ooo 03:58:21 look at my username 03:58:22 I miss him :( 03:58:29 bucking faggot leaving us 03:58:29 lol 03:58:46 heh 03:58:47 *** noone is now known as notNijaxor 03:58:47 *** notNijaxor is now known as noone 03:58:51 :o 03:58:53 HI! 03:58:53 o: 03:58:55 HAI O: 03:59:06 How goes it :3 03:59:09 how have you been o: 03:59:16 it goes good broheam :3 03:59:17 Eh, alright. Busy!! 03:59:23 Good to hear 03:59:31 Haven't seen you in forever 03:59:33 nice to hear from you 03:59:34 yeah :P 03:59:46 y u no IRC anymore? 03:59:51 paranoia and such 03:59:57 heh 03:59:58 I see 04:00:05 well you're in a logged chan 04:00:06 n.n 04:00:15 care, mang 04:00:24 i know it is logged :P 04:00:29 juusssss checkin 04:00:36 :3 04:00:44 <--- is drunk 04:00:46 :D 04:00:52 lel 04:00:57 <--- is sober :/ 04:00:58 NP: [Godsmack - Serenity] [Faceless] [967kbps] DeaDBeeF 0.5.6-3jane 04:01:01 But eh I got work in the AM 04:01:05 work? 04:01:08 yesh 04:01:09 funny joke 04:01:11 :D 04:01:13 lol 04:01:30 also anyone know wtf happened to AnonTune? 04:01:47 yes AnonyOps, talk to joepie91 04:01:48 owait wut 04:01:51 AnonyOps: Art was here last night 04:01:53 It's online again 04:01:56 yes 04:01:58 The other day it was down 04:01:59 lol 04:02:01 yes 04:02:02 I see 04:02:04 german police 04:02:05 seized HDDs 04:02:06 of host node 04:02:07 Cuz I was gonna post a link to it 04:02:10 so anontune went down too 04:02:10 Ooooooooh 04:02:12 lmao... 04:02:15 lel 04:02:18 been throwing backups Arts way 04:02:20 I see how long that lasted 04:02:20 anyway 04:02:27 AnonyOps 04:02:28 wait with posting 04:02:30 I was gonna tweet out a video, and use this site as the holder for it 04:02:31 I think Art has some ideas 04:02:33 oh I see 04:02:36 ah okay. 04:02:37 aaaanyway 04:02:42 I had backup of like 2 weeks before seizure 04:02:42 Well, tell him that if he needs me to toast I will 04:02:44 of anontune 04:02:48 so I gief him backups 04:02:52 oh nice! 04:02:53 :P 04:03:04 Matrix: highlight 04:03:08 * joepie91 obsessed archivist 04:03:10 anyway 04:03:15 about to sleep 04:03:17 good thing though! 04:03:17 so, night all :) 04:03:21 Mhm me too 04:03:24 Night Joepie! 04:03:55 joepie91: GOODNIGHT :D!!!!! 04:04:52 loggy: pointer? 04:04:52 http://wire.cryto.net/logs/2013-02-15#T04-04-52 04:05:06 also 04:05:09 dat HTML5 http://www.anontune.com/register/ 04:05:16 DAT 04:05:21 lol.dat 04:05:30 lelolel 04:05:33 my hostname is better than yours 04:05:42 cryto-28DC3758.cryto.net 04:05:42 noone: whats your host? 04:05:43 .jpg;.php 04:05:44 lol 04:05:51 lol 04:05:57 lady-3jane.users.cryto 04:06:01 anontune sexy 04:06:04 yes 04:06:05 i'm connecting from a *.cryto.net 04:06:06 am user 04:06:18 because yolo swag 420 2k13 04:06:27 NO NO GO BACK, WE FUCKE DUP 04:06:29 also mfw AnonTune has a wikipedia article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anontune 04:06:42 lelz 04:06:47 le lols 04:06:51 LE LE LE LE 04:07:07 LE LE 04:07:07 LE 04:07:08 le 04:07:09 l 04:07:10 e 04:07:12 l 04:07:19