00:00:30 but unless I get a decent job, or donations start rolling in, I'm not going to be able to host it forever on my dime 00:00:53 you can run this off a $5 VPS for the foreseeable future. 00:01:38 does your job pay so bad that you can't pay a $5 or maybe $10 VPS...? 00:01:47 in which case you should probably not bother wasting your time with said job :P 00:02:40 my job pays terribly, I'm a student! 00:02:46 going into debt D: 00:02:51 also, it's not just a listing site 00:02:54 so terrible that you don't have a disposable $5-$10? 00:02:59 well, then what is it? :P 00:03:09 we are going to be doing some pretty intensive analysis to find what we call Cycles 00:03:23 which are when we have a multi-person trade event 00:03:44 okay? 00:05:01 hold on a sec 00:05:04 need to find a graphic 00:05:32 ah 00:05:33 http://betternature.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/f10-2_barter3.png?w=500 00:05:37 essentially, this scenario 00:05:50 our current algorithm grows exponentially 00:05:57 I'm pretty sure it's NP-complete 00:06:54 er 00:06:59 sorry, meant the opposite 00:07:03 it's non-polynomial 00:07:11 terms get me confused.. 00:08:34 basically, as our user base grows so will our need for better processing equipment. How much better? Not sure yet. 00:08:48 wow, redeclipse makes my heard palpitate 00:08:51 heart 00:10:53 lol 00:13:57 anonO_o: in a good or a bad way? 00:14:22 pzuraq: 00:14:23 > DIck 00:14:25 Dick * 00:14:48 anyway 00:14:53 pzuraq 00:14:54 makes it race and hard to breathe. I was playing locally to test 00:15:03 if that's AI, it was totally kicking my ass. 00:15:03 processing equipment isn't actually expensive 00:15:15 anonO_o: did it have a 'bot' sign next to it? 00:15:24 the word 'bot' in small font, surrounded by stripes, a sun-like pattern 00:15:28 didn't look, too busy dying 00:15:31 ah 00:15:35 if it does, it's a bot 00:15:38 if not, it's not 00:15:40 it was local, right? 00:15:42 oh 00:15:45 right, then it's a bot 00:15:50 AI is pretty meh in Red Eclipse though 00:15:57 I was gangbanged by bots 00:15:59 I really don't like the bots - they have an unrealistic playstyle 00:16:21 they are incredibly stupid about some things, and in other cases they spot you in a corner when no human would have seen you 00:16:24 very frustrating :/ 00:16:43 yes joepie91? 00:16:49 processing equipment isn't actually expensive 00:16:53 ah 00:17:00 I'm sure that if you hang around a few hosting IRC channels 00:17:05 you can pick up a few Xeon boards for cheap 00:17:14 colocate them in the cheapest datacenter possible 00:17:21 because hey, it's only off-site analysis anyway 00:17:27 well, like I said I only want to cover costs and such. I'm trying to keep VC money out of it as much as possible myself, my partners are less keen on that idea. 00:17:28 so who cares about uptime / speed / etc 00:18:11 I figured you would like the idea of bypassing the monetary system for trade tho ;P 00:18:34 pzuraq: the thing is that you haven't thought about these things 00:18:46 you assume that need processing power == need a bunch of monies to pay for processing power 00:18:59 and meh, trade system really isn't that much better than monetary system 00:20:11 *** anonO_o has quit (Input/output error) 00:24:26 you are such an idealist joepie91 00:24:35 it's why I stick around, tho ;P 00:26:33 actually, this has very little to do with being an idealist 00:26:46 and a lot to do with being realistic, and _thinking_ about things rather than dismissing ideas beforehand 00:27:07 the "ah, that's not going to work anyway, not even going to think about that" thing that a lot of people do, and that seems to apply here as well 00:27:23 completely separate from what I believe is good/necessary/whatever, you just didn't think this through :P 00:27:29 not enough at least 00:28:28 I wouldn't say that. It's just that you look at things in the future and see the trends, and you know what it's going to become and you're absolutely right. 00:28:49 ? 00:28:57 * joepie91 is unsure how to interpret that sentence 00:30:03 but, for the moment at least, we are in a transitionary period where the combination of social/technological/political forces in the world aren't there yet. Not that they couldn't be, at least technologically speaking. 00:30:36 eh. 00:30:40 what I mean is there are going to be some number of steps between the world of today and the world you envision. Maybe it's one, gigantic revolutionary leap. Maybe it's many small steps. 00:30:43 you can use a $5 VPS for the frontend 00:30:54 you can pick up cheap Xeon boards from hosts for processing 00:31:02 I am unsure what else you think needs to be accomplished before the above is a possibility? 00:31:08 unless the topic changed and I didn't notice? 00:31:08 and, what if the site grows to several million users? 00:31:16 when do you expect that to happen? 00:31:20 overnight? 00:31:32 I don't really, I'm pretty sure it's going to flop 00:31:47 let's assume that it does not flop 00:31:48 but it's always a good idea to have a plan, just in case 00:32:02 maybe 2-3 years, maybe longer. 00:32:03 it's always a good idea to have a plan for realistic scenarios, and just a bit beyond * 00:32:15 this way, you may as well start planning for all of the universe including aliens to use your site 00:32:17 but that wouldn't make sense either 00:32:29 the chance of that actually happening fast enough to take you by surprise, is so small that it's negligible 00:32:52 that I can agree with 00:32:52 in other words: when you start getting users flooding in, figure out a way to do things 00:33:04 graph out your signup rates 00:33:13 if you see a continued sharp rise, you'll have to start thinking about more hardware 00:33:18 or more hosting, rather 00:33:24 and really, the only relevant thing is the frontend 00:33:27 indeed 00:33:31 the analysis is a nice feature, but it's not urgent 00:33:40 it doesn't matter whether you do it right now, or whether you have a backlog of a month 00:33:44 that's something that can be solved later 00:34:03 in other words, you grab a few cheapass OVH boxes as backend servers for the user-facing part 00:34:15 load-balance with haproxy on some cheapo VPS with a lot of bandwidth on a reliable host 00:34:35 and you have a duct taped solution that will hold up against your rise in userbase long enough to think of a better plan, for under 50 euro a month 00:35:47 to put things into perspective 00:35:57 anonnews handled 300k unique visitors in one day on a 512MB VPS 00:36:02 and back then it didn't even use memcache 00:36:18 I think you're going to be fine with a $5-10 VPS for the foreseeable future 00:36:51 sure, but does it have to account for users actually generating content? Working with the database? 00:36:55 Also, it's PHP based no? 00:37:10 define 'working with the database' 00:37:17 what does your site have to do beyond inserting and retrieving records? 00:37:21 and yes, it is PHP based 00:37:49 on every insert it has to run that algo to find cycles 00:37:53 so there's that 00:38:04 also, anonnews currently has a forum, I have frequent spikes of 200-300k uniques a day with heavy forum usage including a lot of spambots (not counted in those uniques) 00:38:07 using memcache now 00:38:13 resource usage is hardly noticeable 00:38:17 cool 00:38:20 hardly a blip on a graph 00:38:27 no, it doesn't have to run that algo on every insert 00:38:34 if it does, then your system isn't engineered well enough 00:38:46 for starters, why aren't you caching stuff? 00:39:04 and beyond that, why are you even updating things live? from what I understand so far, I see no need for realtime feedback from said algo 00:39:04 every insert could potentially have created a new cycle, so we need to check for new cycles 00:39:06 so why not queue it? 00:39:16 potentially, yes 00:39:17 is it relevant? 00:39:19 at that point? 00:39:29 at that immediate point after insertion? 00:40:13 then or shortly after, yes. It's first come first serve, and any items which are part of a cycle need to be removed from the pool so that another cycle can't interfere with the original one 00:40:23 an item cannot belong to two cycles 00:40:37 you'll probably have to elaborate on the concept of said cycles more 00:40:44 because at this point I have no idea what you mean 00:40:58 try describing it from a user point of view 00:41:41 so, users can make offers on items 00:42:01 which is better described as the item "wanting" another items, in terms of our db 00:43:08 if item A wants item B, item B wants item C, and item C wants item A then we can create a cycle which allows us to trade the items without an intermediary (cash) 00:43:44 user A gets item B, user B gets item C, and user C gets item A, and they all give there respective items to who they are supposed to 00:43:58 users don't actually have to organize these cycles, they just make the offers 00:44:29 a typical trade between two people of two items would be a two item cycle, a special case 00:46:36 right 00:46:42 I still don't see how this warrants real-time processing 00:47:07 instead of retrying every single cycle on an insert, create a list of 'wanted' items to complete a cycle every time you re-analyze 00:47:19 and queue a re-analyze job after an insertion to happen _eventually_ 00:47:36 that should already cut processing power requirements and thus job execution time 00:47:43 second point, seeing as it's first come first serve anyway 00:47:49 does it really matter whether a trade is executed now or in 2 days 00:47:54 as long as they are executed in order? 00:48:17 also, re: that wanted items list 00:48:23 every time a new item is inserted, it's checked against the list 00:48:28 no calculations, just a simple match 00:48:42 if it's in there, queue a process job with high priority 00:48:58 the chance of a needs-two-items trade being completed faster than a needs-one-item trade is miniscule 00:49:28 thus it's safe to assume that a needs-one-item trade was placed earlier than any needs-two-items trade offer that might exist during a later-executed queued job 00:49:34 when executing the needs-one-item trade immediately 00:49:51 there you go, need for realtime heavy processing obliterated 00:51:40 * joepie91 pokes pzuraq in case he didn't see response yet 00:53:19 that... doesn't really make sense to me 00:53:51 It does matter if a trade is executed now or 2 days from now, we need to inform the users that they have a trade immediately so they can actually send the items 00:54:10 no, you don't 'need' 00:54:12 you 'want 00:54:13 'want' * 00:54:15 it's not about when an *item* is inserted 00:54:23 no, I'm going to go with need 00:54:27 then you're wrong 00:54:33 under the basis that I would not use the site if it took that long 00:54:35 there's a very big difference between "this has to absolutely be done to ensure the site works" 00:54:41 and "this has to be done to make users happy" 00:54:57 making users happy is part of my definition of it working 00:55:14 if you consider those the same thing, then yes, you're going to have problems with this 00:55:28 'working' is purely a technical matter here 00:55:37 is the site reachable, do buttons work, etc 00:56:05 the whole scenario that I just sketched with a trade being executed _eventually_ is something that will only ever happen when your infrastructure is overloaded 00:56:21 with the setup you have in mind right now, the moment your site is overloaded, everything crashes and burns 00:56:26 and the entire site stops working 00:56:27 literally 00:56:42 and it's going to cost copious amounts of money to prevent that from happening 00:56:58 with the solution(s) I just gave above, when your stuff gets overloaded, it will as-graciously-as-possible degrade service 00:57:07 avoiding impact on critical parts of the infrastructure as best as it can 00:57:37 the site keeps working, trades keep getting executed, no discrepancies in the internal bookkeeping, no inexplicably disappearing trades or delays 00:57:59 when things get delayed because it's overloaded, that is measurable, and the only impact it has, is that the trade execution speed lowers 00:58:03 that's it./ 00:58:06 ok, fair enough. It's not that I'm not planning to have it degrade gracefully, and yes if it gets overloaded it will have to do that. 00:58:50 and honestly, "sorry guys our systems are overloaded due to unexpected interest, we'll have it back up and running in 3 days" is a whole lot better than "whoops, website vanished from the net" or "whoops, site is gone because owners are bankrupt because of hosting costs" 00:59:27 Fair enough, but I wouldn't want to have to say 3 days. Very few communities survive that kind of down time. 00:59:42 and at the point where you get hit with a traffic spike that you don't expect to last, you can always spin up a few temporary VPSes at some pay-per-hour hosting thing 00:59:45 to offload computing power 01:00:01 Yeah, I kind of want to use Heroku if possible. 01:00:02 if you expect it to be a continued increase in users, buy an old server and colo it somewhere cheap 01:00:12 heroku is expensive and not terribly efficient from what I've read 01:00:22 scales nicely though 01:00:24 afaik Joyent would be cheaper, for example 01:00:25 super easy to setup too :) 01:00:33 also, 3 days is nothing 01:00:38 because yes 01:00:43 depends on the community 01:00:45 very few communities survive that kind of downtime 01:00:50 the thing is 01:00:53 you don't _have_ downtime 01:01:02 that's why I sketched that whole setup above 01:01:14 the only thing you have is 3 days of backlog and delayed trade executions 01:01:17 most of which won't even be noticeable 01:01:32 because people generally don't see that "hey, there's a possible trade, but the system hasn't picked it up yet" 01:01:42 as far as they are concerned, the final item for the three-way-trade was just added 2 days later 01:01:45 I would notice... because I clicked "trade" and I still haven't gotten my item... 01:01:45 than when it really was 01:01:52 you'll have queued trades anyway 01:02:12 queued-because-of-trading-delay and queued-because-of-missing-item are indistinguishable 01:02:15 are, forgot to mention, we have a view called "on the table" where users can essentially "buy it now" 01:02:17 to an end user 01:02:23 you click here, you get that item now 01:02:27 sure, that's fine 01:02:49 that doesn't even have to interact with the backend db 01:02:50 er 01:02:53 with the backend processing system * 01:03:03 trade now is purely a database operation 01:04:16 look, things _are_ going to break at some point 01:04:19 hmm, good point, we could definitely cut down there 01:04:20 yes 01:04:21 that's unavoidable 01:04:25 so, design for it 01:04:42 design your things to have minimal (visible) impact to the end user 01:04:44 when something breaks 01:05:27 we plan to 01:05:57 *** Xeross is now known as Xeross|AFK 01:08:27 also 01:08:29 I am going to brb 01:08:30 potentially sleep 01:08:31 :P 01:08:53 gnight, sleep well 01:14:42 *** speakeasy (speakeasy@cryto-D25FDC50.range86-152.btcentralplus.com) has joined #crytocc 01:15:30 joepie91: OMGGGG 01:15:41 WHY DID NOT ONE TELL ME ABOUT TWITTER BOOTSTRAP 01:15:58 everyone knows I HATE website styling and am terrible at it 01:16:46 now I don't have to! horay for the Apache license! 01:16:57 <3 01:16:58 :D 01:17:00 :DDDD 01:17:25 also check out Foundation by Zurb 01:17:55 *** speakeasy has quit (Ping timeout) 01:27:43 hi 01:28:05 *** kvasir (kvasir@cryto-9B6B837F.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #crytocc 01:43:07 Django Unchained was an entertaining film to watch 01:43:15 so Tarantino-esque 01:43:42 very very classic tarantino :D 01:44:10 yup, loved it. I also liked his appearence at the end of the film 01:44:20 He decided to have himself blown up lol 01:45:46 Going to sleep now 01:45:48 Night! 01:46:01 *** iceTwy has quit (User quit: Quit) 01:54:36 *** zest has quit (User quit: hf) 02:11:38 *** HiveResearch has quit (Ping timeout) 02:57:04 *** LastOneStanding has quit (User quit: you guys, I'm going home.) 03:33:23 *** pzuraq has quit (Input/output error) 03:37:22 *** kvasir has quit (User quit: my computer turned itself off again) 04:13:31 *** pzuraq (pzuraq@cryto-3B273C29.ucsc.edu) has joined #crytocc 04:14:02 *** pzuraq has quit (Input/output error) 05:05:04 *** ttmbRAT (ttmbRAT@cryto-54383BCE.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com) has joined #crytocc 05:06:27 *** ttmbRAT has quit (User quit: Connection closed) 05:17:49 *** HiveResearch (HiveResear@developers.developers.developers) has joined #crytocc 05:21:38 *** Angelina (chatzilla@Angelina.users.cryto) has joined #crytocc 05:30:02 *** kvasir (kvasir@cryto-9B6B837F.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #crytocc 05:43:28 *** HiveResearch has quit (Ping timeout) 06:11:39 *** HiveResearch (HiveResear@developers.developers.developers) has joined #crytocc 06:41:29 *** kvasir has quit (User quit: my computer turned itself off again) 07:19:07 *** pzuraq (pzuraq@cryto-D09C67DC.resnet.ucsc.edu) has joined #crytocc 08:02:18 I just had the hottest pepper I've had in quite some time 08:02:29 Some dried asian pepper 08:02:42 orly? 08:03:13 My mouth tasted metallic and my stomach is burning from the inside right now 08:03:38 Serves me right for eating asian food in a dark room 08:05:00 *** speakeasy (speakeasy@speakeasy.users.cryto) has joined #crytocc 08:06:25 Yay 08:06:30 Ice cream killed it 08:07:49 *** pzuraq has quit (Input/output error) 08:08:08 joepie91: btw, i do agree with the octal php issue 08:08:41 it's quite stupid 08:23:13 *** pzuraq (pzuraq@cryto-3B273C29.ucsc.edu) has joined #crytocc 08:44:30 *** HiveResearch has quit (Ping timeout) 08:53:22 *** monod (~pmpf@monod.users.cryto) has joined #crytocc 08:53:46 good evening/morning 08:53:53 GReets 08:56:55 ooooh 08:56:59 Angelina 08:57:02 welcome back 08:57:21 please, remind me what you were into? cryptography? 08:59:08 [off[ Somewhat 08:59:35 Hahah 09:02:03 *** HiveResearch (HiveResear@developers.developers.developers) has joined #crytocc 09:03:14 *** speakeasy has quit (User quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de) 09:06:16 It is in murrica! 09:08:29 Meow 09:11:26 *** mama has quit (Ping timeout) 09:11:43 Much more tasty as well 09:17:23 guys 09:17:28 how could it be true? 09:17:59 pi written to the (200*10^6)-th digit 09:18:05 200m digits 09:18:14 is ~190MB 09:18:25 if you compress it with gzip 09:18:32 IT GETS TO 90MB o_O 09:19:04 this is absolutely strange, so before thinking there's low entropy in the first 200m digits of pi, I have to do some more researches 09:19:19 but that's what I immediately thought 09:19:28 but how can pi have low entropy?? 09:20:01 if it would be true, then we could predict further digits 09:20:06 afk a minute 09:20:08 or two 09:20:11 or three/four 09:23:05 Heh 09:23:21 Trick is that you don't write that 190M as binary, I guess 09:23:32 You write 190M of ASCII digit-characters 09:24:03 Which vary only one-two bits in each consecutive byte, I think 09:24:21 So I'm actually surprised that compression there is not 10x 09:26:14 but it's 5x 09:26:23 anyway, hmm I think it may right 09:26:36 how can I convert such a file to a binary file? 09:30:12 I don't know how any huge-mantissa formats past just double-precision float go, but given that you probably don't need much interoperability there anyway... 09:31:10 ...I'd just accumulate digits till they overflow 256, then write that byte out big-endian style and do acc=acc%256, rinse, repeat 09:35:11 I didn't get it: read the file, digit by digit, until the 256th digit? 09:42:53 No, but I think it's a bit trickier than I thought above anyway 09:43:07 hmm okay 09:43:41 Have counter, read each digit, multiply by 10*(counter++)... 09:44:12 ...add that to accumulator, eventually writing-out the part that gets left behind 09:44:41 (as new numbers only add up to one end of that potentially-infinite bitstream) 09:45:28 There's gotta be some Knuth on how to do that 09:48:23 You want the Knuth? YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE KNUTH! 09:48:37 (c) someone on twitter 09:48:45 so, multiplying by 10.. what is it supposed to do? Oh lawl 09:48:57 lol for the joke 09:48:59 anyway 09:49:00 Integers you read are base-10 09:49:04 ype 09:49:07 yep* 09:49:46 So you multiply by 10 for every next one to get it's value in the number 09:49:50 *** pzuraq has quit (Input/output error) 09:50:05 so it's 10's powers then? 09:50:13 instead of multiplying 09:50:15 Though you should mul on 10^(counter++), not 10*... 09:50:20 ok 09:50:27 and also 09:51:05 this way you store them in reversed order, is this what you meant with big-endian? where most significant digits are at the right end of the numer? 09:51:07 number* 09:51:37 (dunno if that't the definition) 09:51:42 lol 09:51:52 Yeah, so you can shift left side to disk eventually 09:52:14 "shift left side to disk"? 09:52:45 With LE byte order, you'll have to know the number size in advance, I think, as least significant byte should be written to the last byte on disk 09:53:02 http://www.amazon.com/CODE-ebook/dp/B004OR1XLA/ref=tmm_kin_title_0 09:53:13 Assuming pi has infinite digits, you can't just accumulate gigs of these to RAM 09:53:30 And least-significant part stops changing after few 10*x 09:53:38 :) 09:53:41 So can be safely written-out and pushed out of RAM 09:54:45 hmm 09:55:09 I'm still struggling a bit, but I've understood the fact the you may not know how many digits are there 09:55:16 even though I "only" have 200m 09:56:05 "left side" was the left side of the number, the most significant digits, or the left side in this new layout, then the least significant digits? 09:56:51 least-significant 09:57:04 digital analysis allows you to request any digit position of pie that you want 09:57:11 *pi 09:57:30 even if there are an infinity of them 09:58:26 what do you mean HiveResearch ? 09:58:29 :O 09:59:11 there is a formula that gives you any digit of pi you want 09:59:12 there exist algorithms that yeild the n-th digit of pi?? 09:59:17 yes 09:59:26 digital analysis 09:59:29 did you read it on wikipedia? 09:59:44 i read it somewhere 10:00:01 because I found something similar, but it appeared to only be a summation 10:00:12 okay, I'll search digital analysis 10:00:22 i think that's what it's called 10:00:33 even though.. we were discussing compression, but thanks anyway :D 10:00:50 you could use that for compression 10:01:14 might it be DIGITS ANALYSIS?? 10:01:23 mebbe 10:01:45 oh god, I did this sort of number pattern searching back into my 16 *_* 10:02:08 I didn't know there already was something like that, but obviously I was expecting so 10:04:28 "Digital Analysis is the analysis of data to detect abnormal occurrences of specific digits, digit combinations, specific numbers, and round numbers." Hive, so it might be called so 10:04:54 and may not xD 10:04:59 just, don't know yet..... 10:05:04 and, nevermind 10:08:45 *** monod has quit (User quit: gotta go) 11:05:54 I'll be back fellas. 11:09:05 *** ShadowDemon has quit (Ping timeout) 11:18:01 *** AnonO_o (AnonO_o@anonO_o) has joined #crytocc 11:18:08 joe, you're a bastard. 11:18:30 I should have never clicked on redeclipse 11:18:41 addictive little thing. 12:23:57 *** Angelina has quit (Input/output error) 12:24:24 *** Angelina (chatzilla@cryto-BFEA5E32.snydernet.net) has joined #crytocc 12:37:08 *** AnonForecast has quit (Ping timeout) 12:44:18 *** AnonO_o has quit (Input/output error) 12:46:10 *** AnonO_o (AnonO_o@anonO_o) has joined #crytocc 13:14:26 *** HiveResearch has quit (Ping timeout) 13:28:03 *** HiveResearch (HiveResear@developers.developers.developers) has joined #crytocc 13:33:30 *** HiveResearch has quit (Ping timeout) 13:33:57 *** HiveResearch (HiveResear@developers.developers.developers) has joined #crytocc 13:35:16 *** mama (anon@cryto-67EE065B.dhcp.dbnet.dk) has joined #crytocc 13:41:49 *** joepie91 has quit (Ping timeout) 13:42:28 *** joepie91 (joepie91@cryto-3E6002EF.direct-adsl.nl) has joined #crytocc 13:51:18 *** joepie91 has quit (Ping timeout) 13:51:55 *** joepie91 (joepie91@cryto-3E6002EF.direct-adsl.nl) has joined #crytocc 13:53:08 *** AnonO_o has quit (Input/output error) 14:00:59 *** foolex has quit (Ping timeout) 14:05:03 *** S1renide (S1renide@cryto-54383BCE.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com) has joined #crytocc 14:05:04 *** foolex (foolex@AD356075.7DC890E0.CEC56216.IP) has joined #crytocc 14:06:24 *** S1renide has quit (User quit: Connection closed) 14:22:10 *** Luxor (Luxor@cryto-24C3E6D6.red.bezeqint.net) has joined #crytocc 14:24:18 *** Xeross|AFK is now known as Xeross 14:56:19 *** x has quit (Ping timeout) 14:57:02 *** x (foobar@C35CA8A8.589C91BA.8F6A2B14.IP) has joined #crytocc 15:19:59 mornin o/ 15:21:36 o/ 15:21:46 mama <3 15:21:48 hai :3 15:21:54 x <3 15:22:01 hello :D 15:22:07 hai :3 15:22:11 ^_^ 15:22:18 haha 15:22:27 just woke my butt up 15:22:40 x I expected you will join the meeting yesterday 15:22:52 only your butt? 15:23:24 ohh sorry :( was up most of the night researching 15:23:36 lol yus, my head is still asleep 15:23:45 hahahah 15:24:03 brb a bit :) 15:24:07 you can join #ideas any time 15:24:20 i have to go afk too 15:24:24 TTYL 15:47:24 *** HiveResearch has quit (Ping timeout) 15:56:33 *** Luxor has quit (Ping timeout) 16:04:16 *** iceTwy (iceTwy@iceTwy.users.cryto) has joined #crytocc 16:04:20 Hao 16:04:22 Hai* 16:07:11 *** x has quit (Input/output error) 16:16:17 *** Luxor (Luxor@cryto-24C3E6D6.red.bezeqint.net) has joined #crytocc 16:16:47 *** Luxor has parted #crytocc (Leaving) 16:21:39 *** kvasir (kvasir@cryto-9B6B837F.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #crytocc 17:21:02 *** kvasir has quit (User quit: three sheets to the wind) 17:24:59 *** Angelina has quit (Ping timeout) 17:32:09 *** Angelina (chatzilla@cryto-70E29873.torservers.net) has joined #crytocc 17:50:41 *** emptyreddata (emptyred@856A53CC.B454AB78.6B89ED8F.IP) has joined #crytocc 17:57:48 *** AnonO_o (AnonO_o@anonO_o) has joined #crytocc 18:21:44 *** Angelina has quit (User quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 17.0.5/20130401162833]) 18:36:20 *** ShadowDemon (alexgurrol@cryto-507D6D5.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #crytocc 19:53:06 *** zest (zest@cryto-BBDC76E6.tor.uwaterloo.ca) has joined #crytocc 19:55:23 *** BigAnon (BigAnon@E929C8BA.495D65D2.80CBFD1A.IP) has joined #crytocc 20:12:12 *** x (foobar@cryto-4ABAF172.as5577.net) has joined #crytocc 20:47:30 *** monod (~pmpf@monod.users.cryto) has joined #crytocc 20:47:45 hello people 21:11:27 hi 21:16:14 herp 21:16:30 I hate people relying on someone else's reputation to prove a point 21:16:48 This Arch user's going all like, "yeah, this Arch official dev is totally correct to tell you not to use XX" 21:16:51 >why? 21:17:07 >"because he's an official dev!" 21:17:09 >_< 21:25:54 It's almost always the case though 21:26:19 Just as you rely on your school teachers and book authors for even basic math knowledge 21:29:47 True.. 21:29:49 Well. 21:30:05 We're mostly demonstrating stuff in maths. So I wouldn't really be okay with this point 21:31:46 Should work with pretty much every thing you haven't tested or unable to derive yourself, I think 21:32:05 Derive? Lawl. That only applies to functions though 21:32:14 We don't /only/ study function-related content. 21:32:29 Nah, I meant in a more general sense 21:32:46 Like, "You say earth is round, why?" 21:33:05 Oh 21:33:11