00:00:04 * snowy takes notes 00:00:29 MOAR tips 00:02:23 now available in feel-o-rama 00:15:29 *** scraepy (scraepy@scraepy.users.cryto) has joined #crytocc 00:50:06 *** iceTwy has quit (Input/output error) 00:54:18 *** joepie91_ (4da23717@cryto-EC78CCDC.mibbit.com) has joined #crytocc 00:54:24 back 00:54:25 ish 00:55:32 anyone alive? MK_FG, pzuraq, AnonyOps, raymii, zxcvbnm, waflel? 00:56:45 hai joepie91_ 00:57:01 hai 00:57:08 got temporary replacement hardware 00:57:12 still need to set it up 00:57:33 yo 00:57:52 pzuraq: assuming you were already brought up to speed with what happened? 00:57:57 if not 00:58:00 loggy, pointer? 00:58:00 http://wire.cryto.net/logs/crytocc/2013-07-13#T00-58-00 00:58:01 you got raided, no? 00:58:04 yes 00:58:24 IRRADIATED 00:59:32 also MK_FG, I will receive mail soon with a full log of what occurred 00:59:34 and people 00:59:34 etc 00:59:41 I do already have a list of stuff taken 00:59:48 whatd you do 00:59:49 again 00:59:54 it will be returned as soon as possible (ie. forensic image etc) 01:00:00 ryan: that's what I'm wondering about 01:00:09 they have refused to provide any information about the case whatsoever 01:00:28 didn't get much more than "it was ordered by the US" and a vague hint about it being re: anon 01:00:38 lol 01:00:51 and who ordered the us? Hollywood? 01:00:52 also, MK_FG, this was definitely police 01:01:05 dont you have laws against doing such there 01:01:08 police, forensics, high tech crime team (basically the IT dept of dutch police) 01:01:10 some officials 01:01:14 and some american guy 01:01:17 probably CIA or some shit 01:01:29 CIA afraid of trolls 01:01:31 I dont think 01:01:35 CIA is too interested 01:01:37 ryan: against raids without reasons? that's what I thought 01:01:42 at least that was accomplished 01:01:50 apparently not 01:01:50 and well 01:01:55 it was a guy from _some_ US agency 01:02:11 I guess FBI has access to planes too 01:02:13 too bad u has no camera 01:02:40 then we can see who these fags are 01:04:14 ryan: I was just naming random US agency 01:04:18 he didn't identify himself 01:04:22 yeah 01:05:15 joepie91_: i saw that game addiction video and was transfixed on Ian Bogost's eyeballs 01:05:37 but anyway 01:05:43 wtf world 01:07:42 heh 01:10:08 I miss the sound of my PSU :( 01:11:30 *** LastOneStanding has quit (User quit: you guys, I'm going home.) 01:14:56 joepie91_ I am here for a sec 01:15:22 yo joe 01:15:51 hai AnonyOps 01:15:54 wll 01:15:59 I heard what happend D: 01:15:59 guess you already got the news 01:16:00 well* 01:16:04 mhm 01:16:26 bright side: they DID nicely sort out all my CDs and DVDs 01:16:31 hai joe 01:16:32 lol 01:16:35 and categorize them by box type 01:16:44 which is awesome because I really didn't want to do that myself 01:16:45 lol 01:16:45 Any idea what it would be about?... 01:16:49 no idea 01:16:54 something related to anon, appaerntly 01:16:58 but thats all info I have 01:17:00 hm... 01:17:06 pm? 01:17:10 sure 01:19:09 they found out you're the leader of anonymous?!!111one 01:19:39 interesting that they don't have to identify themselves in your dwelling 01:20:52 dutch police did 01:20:54 US guy didn't 01:22:08 i'm gonna move into a half way house and teach everybody to go "Who the fuck are you to each other" whenever cops come over and then let ppl get away while the cops try to understand what just happened 01:23:06 you can't do "show identification or get the fuck out of my house"? 01:23:22 AnonO_o: apparently not. 01:23:56 this is going to be like the bolivian plane thing, isn't it? 01:24:13 where the US pressured them to raid you, then finds nothing 01:24:49 AnonO_o lol 01:24:59 odd that you aren't charged, but they can take your shit 01:25:02 how does that work? 01:25:13 Do you have axx to your twitter joepie? 01:25:18 we have a warrant to arrest... your stuff. 01:25:28 ^Yeah that is strange lol 01:25:37 then if we find something.. we'll be back to arrest you! 01:25:41 it's not confiscation it's funfiscation 01:25:44 fishing expedition 01:26:31 at least you didn't get tazed 01:26:37 lol 01:26:48 while on tinychat 01:26:51 while it was record 01:26:53 LOL 01:26:56 and put on youtube 01:26:58 I was just about to link that 01:27:44 I'm out though guys, will be back later. 01:29:24 AnonO_o: I have no idea how this works (or doesn't) legally 01:29:29 I will be discussing it with my lawyer 01:29:39 to figure out whether it was even a legal raid to start with 01:29:47 AnonyOps: I don't have axx to anything right now 01:29:56 I _should_ have an offsite backup of all my access keys and shit 01:29:58 but I forgot where 01:30:01 lol 01:33:53 can't be compelled to produce what you can't remember! 01:34:14 how encrypted was your stuff? 01:35:00 AnonO_o: not at all, primarily because I didn't really have anything that needed encryption 01:35:08 did realize later that of course my keepass database _is_ encrypted 01:35:22 (I was asked whether I had any encrypted stuff on my PC) 01:36:35 i'm gonna say no, officer i just decided one day to make a drive full of random strings 01:36:45 i might sell it to a museum 01:36:47 I prefer my answer 01:36:53 I'm a girl.. how should I know? 01:37:21 "don't delete my porn." 01:38:04 which is interesting, because... did their warrant state everything? 01:38:43 I keep reading about overreaching the warrant by 'accident' or 'guilt by association' like taking iPads and iPod touches 01:38:58 "you must like Die Antwoord too!" 01:40:57 AnonO_o: they took everything that could store data, raelly 01:40:58 really * 01:41:12 including a few pieces of paper 01:41:13 lol 01:41:21 no idea what exactly was on them but it can't have been much 01:41:45 they were also really confused by my portable speaker apparently 01:41:48 couldn't figure out what it was 01:41:56 (can't really blame them though, it doesnt look like a speaker) 01:42:37 did they take your printer? 01:42:45 cell phone? 01:43:07 because you might launch nuclear missles 01:46:04 they did take my cell phone 01:46:07 one of those Nokia brick phones 01:46:09 (lol) 01:46:18 but indicated that it'd probably be returned to me quite quickly 01:46:24 because it takes virtually no time to grab data off those 01:46:53 basically the idea is that they will make a forensic copy, then return stuff t ome 01:46:54 to me * 01:47:25 because your cell phone and SMS messages that the telco already gave them isn't enough! 01:47:33 numbers 01:48:11 and the dead hookers? did they find them? 01:48:51 also, for some reason 01:48:55 they didn't take my old phone 01:49:04 I mean, it's broken and stuff 01:49:04 but still 01:49:10 bit odd 01:50:33 oh 01:50:36 they also took like 5 floppies 01:50:37 lol 01:51:19 do you have an attorney that deals with this type of stuff? 01:52:04 I don't t think they were very happy when they got into my room 01:52:10 and saw my shelf of CDs, DVDs, etc 01:52:24 (I'm an archiving nut, I archive anything and everything... leading to piles of stuff with data on it) 01:53:07 hopefully nothing exotic 01:53:16 right, I have a list of items seized here 01:53:19 AnonO_o: oh, probably 01:54:48 desktop, laptop, phone, harddrive, harddrive, harddrive, desktop, few usb sticks, spycam, ~30 CDs/DVDs, 5 floppies, 6 (micro)SD cards, harddrive 01:54:57 and something wrapped in a newspaper according to the list 01:55:01 but I have absolutely no idea what it is 01:55:15 shit.. that'll be their leg in. 01:55:26 terrorist. 01:55:28 my best guess is the rubber foot of my keyboard that came off because the glue went derp, and I packed it in a bit of newspaper to prevent everything from getting sticky 01:55:29 lol 01:55:36 other than that, nfi 01:55:49 oh, and a pile of paper 01:56:19 as for CDs and DVDs, my guess is that they only took the unlabeled discs or something 01:56:21 they left most behind 01:56:36 take my Windows 95 CD PLEASE 01:56:41 .. 01:56:51 I think they might have actually taken my OS/2 CD and floppies 01:56:52 lol 01:56:55 yes, OS/2 01:57:04 hahahha 01:57:57 I do have to say 01:58:02 these guys _did_ know what they were doing 01:58:15 (had a bit of a random chat about ISPs with one of the guys while waiting) 01:58:32 they generally seemed to know their things etc 01:59:54 did they say cryto is tagged? 02:05:35 there was no mention of cryto and I didn't get the impression that it was related 02:05:46 also, lulzy moment: the bit where they figured out I lived together with a bf in the same room 02:05:53 it took a while to sink in 02:06:01 "so that's not your laptop?" 02:06:05 "nope" 02:06:13 "so... do you live together?" 02:06:21 "yes, you just pulled the other person into the living room" 02:06:28 "wait, so you are in a relationship?" 02:06:35 *insert stare of penny dropping* 02:06:39 :P 02:07:09 that was mildly amusing 02:08:05 other interesting bits: 02:08:18 * I opened the door and they immediately addressed me by name and apparently knew that that was me 02:08:33 * the fawkes mask on the wall when you walk into the room was probably a dead giveaway as to that being my room :P 02:08:39 oh, you just fucked their investigation 02:09:18 hmm? 02:09:32 they weren't expecting you! 02:09:56 haha 02:09:59 having someone else involved makes it very difficult to pin things specifically on you because there's no way to prove YOU were the one doing it 02:10:00 seriously though 02:10:03 lol 02:10:08 well 02:10:13 they had a really easy way 02:10:21 of figuring out whose hardware was whose 02:10:26 look what accounts are logged in 02:10:39 oh you didn't even get a chance to shut the machine down? 02:10:53 power off, no hibernate! 02:13:34 my logins are mostly 'guest' 02:13:41 and delete on logout 02:17:08 *** ilikeapricot has quit (Ping timeout) 02:17:44 AnonO_o: no 02:17:48 they took my desktop live 02:17:53 as in, they never shut it down 02:18:36 some fancy trick with a battery and a electrical strip 02:18:37 an* 02:18:40 like 02:18:41 powerstrip 02:18:44 idk the english word 02:19:13 my laptop, they seem to have shut down 02:19:28 my guess is that they couldn't figure out the config and just gave up on xscreensaver 02:19:41 (it's a bit of an oddly configured machine) 02:23:18 wow, that's interesting about the battery electrical strip thing 02:23:30 wonder how that works 02:28:01 Hm, I thought you'd have everything reasonably encrypted/protected, but it'd indeed seem silly if they didn't ask you for pass in that case 02:29:27 goddamnit, they took my DVI to VGA adaptor 02:29:28 that's annoying 02:29:29 Quite a new level of violation of privacy to take one's stuff like that with explicit intention to shuffle through all your offline data 02:29:46 MK_FG: no point in encrypting data here, really 02:29:50 Indeed 02:29:58 also 02:30:08 I indeed do consider this very much a violation of privacy 02:30:17 I've been thinking about writing a book for a while 02:30:22 and perhaps this would be a nice part o it 02:30:23 of * 02:32:57 btw 02:33:00 AnonO_o: 02:33:03 as for the elecctrical thing 02:33:11 I suspect it works like an externally connected UPS 02:33:32 ie. it's connected to a power strip, and the moment the power strip loses power, it turns on and 'feeds' it 02:33:50 thereby keeping power on the power strip with a minor outage, short enough to not make a PC turn off 02:33:55 that's my guess anyway 02:34:19 I think plugging simple off-the-shelf ups into strip should do that 02:35:28 so you plug the USP into the strip with the computer while the mains are on? 02:36:05 (one of the open sockets) 02:36:21 It should still drain (on-battery) UPS if you do that 02:36:22 interesting 02:37:02 And it's still better to plug stuff *through* UPS even if it's not on battery, as it seem to be the best possible surge protection 02:37:17 yeh, but this was invasive 02:37:48 Yeah, in this case it's definitely not a worry ;) 02:37:48 *** ilikeapricot (app@ilikeapricot.users.cryto) has joined #crytocc 02:37:50 unless the desktop was on a UPS and they took that and I'm misunderstanding 02:38:57 It's actually quite nice of this raiders to go in while joepie91_ was at home 02:39:29 MK_FG: can't plug in regular UPS and such while on electricity net 02:39:36 it will blow the fuses 02:39:40 I'd think that knowing that he might be some kind of activist, it'd be more logical to raid his house when he's out 02:39:45 also 02:39:52 they clearly indicated that they had no intention to bust down the door 02:40:05 they came at 8AM rather than 4AM and such 02:40:06 And then ask for whatever missing passwords later 02:40:09 they rang the doorbell several times 02:40:11 and knocked 02:40:18 no shouting of 'police' either 02:40:42 Yeah, nice ;) 02:40:45 ohai joepie91_ 02:40:58 some things did bother me 02:40:58 Fuse, hmm 02:41:03 they didn't show a search warrant until later 02:41:07 refused to show it straightaway 02:41:11 never informed me what the raid was for 02:41:11 etc 02:41:13 hai ilikeapricot 02:41:37 but generally I was okay with the way it was approached 02:41:40 ur servers secure yet 02:41:51 (and I suspect they know very well that this method was least likely to cause problems with me) 02:41:52 ? 02:42:12 ilikeapricot: it would be madness to answer 'yes' to that in a normal scenario (you should always assume servers aren't) 02:42:23 and now that I'm raided and my keys are possible compromised... 02:42:28 possibly * 02:42:42 you get the idea 02:42:42 :P 02:42:50 wouldnt they be changed regularly? 02:43:17 ? 02:43:28 the encryption keys 02:43:33 are they static? 02:43:36 aside from the answer generally being no 02:43:40 I don't see how that would help? 02:43:57 if they captured logs 02:44:02 ... 02:44:07 why would there be passwords in logs 02:44:13 wait 02:44:19 o nvm 02:44:20 I think we're talking about something different 02:44:21 clarify 02:44:22 :P 02:44:39 i mean if they mitm logs 02:44:49 had mitm logs 02:44:49 how? where? who? why? 02:44:56 from tor exit nodes 02:45:09 feds get data from exit nods or vpns 02:45:10 *** ilikeapricot (app@ilikeapricot.users.cryto) has joined #crytocc 02:45:26 useles because its encrypted 02:45:36 but can now be unencrypted 02:45:46 also u should make an onion p 02:45:49 :P* 02:47:15 what does TOR encryption have to do with my keys? ._. 02:47:26 and there's no point in setting up an onion here 02:47:30 keys = encryption keys? 02:47:34 TOR isn't blocked on the other nodes 02:47:43 keys = SSH keys, GPG key, keepass db,e tc 02:47:44 etc * 02:48:04 ok 02:48:35 and the oint in setting up the onion would be extra encryption between clients to ur server 02:49:46 Given that server itself is compromised, is there much point in it? 02:49:52 uh, no, not really? 02:49:54 ilikeapricot: 02:49:58 cryto IRC supports TLS 02:50:21 the point of a .onion is not to secure clients more 02:50:29 it's to hide and safeguard the origin of a server 02:50:39 and it implements encryption from end toe nd 02:50:41 end to end * 02:50:43 but so does TLS 02:50:50 SSL/TLS 02:51:00 isnt that 128 bit? 02:51:08 and tor uses 2048 02:51:26 Heheh 02:52:13 ilikeapricot, You seem to be confusing totally different things together 02:52:43 could be 02:52:47 im no expert 02:53:23 Tor uses 1024-bit RSA, TLS certs are generally generated with 2048-bit RSA keys these days 02:53:33 Which still doesn't mean much wrt topic 02:53:46 intresting 02:54:55 .onion seem to have the benefit that name there is hashed key, unlike tls where you'd have to ask for key separately, and no one generally does that 02:55:28 what do u mean exactly? 02:55:57 Hence I'd say tls is more mitm-easy than .onion, but that also doesn't help much in this situation, given that it's server itself that should be considered compromised 02:56:35 well, let's hope they didn't take my opensuse CD 02:56:42 lol 02:56:48 u use opensuse? 02:57:05 never heard anyone say they use that before 02:58:00 yes, I do 02:58:02 and yes, I know 02:58:10 it's awesome though 02:58:19 im in love with debian 02:58:39 I've seen a few suse people on freenode 02:59:47 It's generally easier to find $specificdistro people in some $specificsoftware channel like systemd, as they generally talk about "how to use this software on distro X" there ;) 03:00:05 opensuse 11.3 03:00:08 not quite what I was looking for 03:00:14 * joepie91_ wonders where his 12.3 disc is 03:00:22 ilikeapricot: debian is alright 03:00:26 it's awesome for servers 03:00:29 not so much for desktops 03:00:46 what makes opensuse better? 03:01:08 i just really loehowstable it is 03:01:15 love how stable* 03:03:03 opensuse 12.3 netinstaller 03:03:04 yay! 03:03:09 ilikeapricot: a few things 03:03:25 zypper and yast are awesome (zypper is like apt but better, yast is like a full featured control panel) 03:03:39 the amount of packages on offer via the package search and build service is awesome 03:03:50 shit generally just works, even the more exotic stuff 03:03:59 and stuff doesn't break on updates (though debian has that too) 03:04:06 also, opensuse seems to put a lot more effort into media stuff 03:04:10 think codecs, games, etc 03:04:24 so they have their own repository? 03:04:27 also, xfce is well integrated into opensuse 03:04:28 . 03:04:34 opensuse has a lot of repositories 03:04:36 it's not a derivative 03:04:38 it's an independent distro 03:04:43 http://software.opensuse.org/ 03:04:49 search for anything in the package search box at the top 03:04:49 :p 03:05:05 does wine work on it? 03:07:45 Of course it does 03:08:08 i wouldnt know, i never traveled outside of dbian derivatives 03:10:16 Any major liinux distro have it packaged, and even if you happen to stumble upon one that somehow doesn't, it can be built there from source, unless it's some really weird binary-only distro for specific hardware 03:10:47 lot of distros out there 03:10:51 hard to find the best 03:10:59 but i do think debian is fantastic 03:11:35 Heh, with "lot of distros" there's no need to find "the best" imho - just look for "good enuff" - that's easy ;) 03:11:59 ilikeapricot: yes, as does playonlinux 03:12:04 also 03:12:04 wtf 03:12:09 I got replacement hardware 03:12:13 but the DVD drive isn't working 03:12:15 so I opened it up 03:12:18 oh, it's not connected 03:12:22 ... and there are no spare sata cables in it 03:12:23 D: 03:12:34 I _know_ that I have a sata cable _somewhere) 03:12:35 _ 03:12:37 but nfi where 03:12:56 Don't you have some usb sticks left? 03:13:08 Should be faster than dvd anyway 03:13:19 MK_FG: all seized 03:13:22 anyway 03:13:27 guess it's time to hook up my external drive again 03:13:28 lol 03:14:47 i can't get 32 bit stuff to work because of conflict between 32bit and 64bit libs which both have to be installed wtf 03:17:19 If it's simple enough stuff, you can do ldd, copy/get/build the 32b libs to some dir and run the thing with LD_LIBRARY_PATH=thatdir 03:17:43 *** pzuraq has quit (Input/output error) 03:18:55 HiveResearch: on suse, you can just install the 32 bits version alongside ;) 03:19:15 * joepie91_ does some comedic pseudo-marketing 03:19:24 also, this installation is going to take a while... 03:19:32 USB DVD drives are sloooow 03:19:49 Debian supposedly got multi-arch done, but no 03:20:23 I might just try SuSE out. 03:20:40