00:05:03 *** MRdjst0rm (MRdjst0rm@cryto-218CF160.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com) has joined #crytocc 00:06:24 *** MRdjst0rm has quit (User quit: Connection closed) 00:07:21 *** mama (me@61002F3E.5CE35950.DEED7EBB.IP) has joined #crytocc 00:16:08 *** anonnews164 (anonnews16@cryto-EA7075DD.retail.telecomitalia.it) has joined #crytocc 00:18:01 *** anonnews164 has parted #crytocc () 01:09:55 *** truetravesty has quit (Ping timeout) 01:11:25 *** truetravesty (truetraves@7ABB88F7.2C566207.79E6D716.IP) has joined #crytocc 02:32:29 *** mama has quit (Ping timeout) 02:38:27 *** achus has quit (Ping timeout) 02:47:50 *** lblissett (lblissett@lblissett.users.cryto) has joined #crytocc 02:59:02 *** achus (achus@achus.users.cryto) has joined #crytocc 03:25:05 *** achus has quit (Ping timeout) 03:42:07 *** achus (achus@achus.users.cryto) has joined #crytocc 04:13:43 *** Thor has quit (User quit: Quitte) 07:05:16 *** monod (~pmpf@monod.users.cryto) has joined #crytocc 07:05:26 hello, morning! 07:17:36 g2g! 07:17:38 *** monod has quit (User quit: Quit) 09:05:03 *** T0R_till (T0R_till@cryto-913E1672.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com) has joined #crytocc 09:06:25 *** T0R_till has quit (User quit: Connection closed) 09:45:12 *** x (foobar@91513BE6.1FF3EB83.C789C8B2.IP) has joined #crytocc 09:46:46 *** x has quit (Input/output error) 10:52:19 *** cipolla285 (cipolla285@F0845C18.5982FCB.42C12FD2.IP) has joined #crytocc 10:52:30 *** cipolla285 has quit (User quit: Page closed) 11:11:00 .ti http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1xl9ul/coke_machine_used_to_explain_mtgox_hack/ 11:21:04 *** mama (me@cryto-8057286C.torservers.net) has joined #crytocc 11:47:41 *** Zekka has quit (Ping timeout) 12:47:14 04FichteFoll made 2 commit(s) to 03package_control_channel on branch 10master: '02Add new plugin', '02Merge pull request #2805 from yangxikun/masterAdd new plugin' (https://github.com/wbond/package_control_channel/compare/aacf39d3b4...fcc779e119) 12:53:17 04FichteFoll made 2 commit(s) to 03package_control_channel on branch 10master: '02Added KRL Syntax', '02Merge pull request #2806 from drautb/masterAdded KRL (Kinetic Rule Language) Syntax Package' (https://github.com/wbond/package_control_channel/compare/fcc779e119...64dfc004bc) 13:04:24 04FichteFoll made 3 commit(s) to 03package_control_channel on branch 10master: '02Add Vuejs Snippets', '02Fix comma', '02Merge pull request #2804 from filipelinhares/masterAdd Vuejs Snippets' (https://github.com/wbond/package_control_channel/compare/64dfc004bc...b622aaf2db) 13:46:31 *** Legend_Luk (lukasfan@cryto-4964547B.static.netvigator.com) has joined #crytocc 13:46:54 *** Legend_Luk has parted #crytocc (Leaving) 14:13:32 *** lblissett has quit (Input/output error) 14:13:34 *** foolex has quit (Ping timeout) 14:16:02 *** foolex (foolex@5D6B0912.EC145393.9A74EEF1.IP) has joined #crytocc 14:19:14 *** lblissett (lblissett@lblissett.users.cryto) has joined #crytocc 14:39:02 trying not to throttle somebody :| chrome crashed and relaunched itself and ate every single tab in the process 14:39:35 shut down improperly, as it tells me, which is its reason why I no longer have tabs and cannot restore the old ones 14:44:08 dorotea: :( 14:44:12 it might be in recently closed pages? 14:51:16 Backups? 15:10:55 *** margaret_p2862 has quit (Client exited) 15:13:40 *** randolph-z1487 (randolph-z@cryto-C69F2148.vnet.sk) has joined #crytocc 15:16:52 *** AnonyOps (anonyops@cryto-839FCCA3.cinci.res.rr.com) has joined #crytocc 15:21:16 *** Stassi (Stassi__@cryto-61E72864.ighost.se) has joined #crytocc 15:25:51 *** unoqualunque (unoqualunq@unoqualunque.users.cryto) has joined #crytocc 15:26:14 *** unoqualunque has parted #crytocc () 15:54:59 *** Cryto595 (Cryto595@cryto-685137A.nationalcablenetworks.ru) has joined #crytocc 15:55:34 *** Cryto595 has quit (User quit: Page closed) 16:00:54 *** monod (monod@monod.users.cryto) has joined #crytocc 16:01:05 hellou! 16:06:03 *** TorBrowser12 (TorBrowser@TorBrowser12.users.cryto) has joined #crytocc 16:06:31 *** TorBrowser12 has parted #crytocc () 16:21:52 .title http://cryto.net/~joepie91/blog/2014/02/11/the-day-we-do-nothing-of-consequence/ 16:21:53 joepie91: February 11th, 2014, The Day We Do Nothing Of Consequence - joepie91's Ramblings 16:24:10 oh thanks, going to read it 16:24:28 joepie91: um, what 16:24:44 Day We Fight Back isn't armchair activism 16:24:51 lysobit: how isn't it? 16:24:57 it's being complemented by a ton of worldwide IRL events to teach people who to encrypt 16:25:02 I'm going to on in London today 16:25:04 to one* 16:25:11 .t http://www.englishpen.org/event/the-day-we-fight-back/ 16:25:11 lysobit: not part of the actual event 16:25:14 .title 16:25:16 lysobit: The day we fight back 16:25:33 lysobit: my complaints also do not extend to the... german? variant of the day we fight back 16:25:41 ? 16:26:22 i've just given you an example of an IRL complement to the event 16:32:26 btw joepie91 ""Calling your representative" does actually help 16:33:21 you'd be surprised how much Congressmen actually ask their secretaries about what their callers think about X problem before voting on an issue, since it effects their popularity rating 16:33:53 esp. in the Syria war proposal so many of the changed their minds last minute due to pressure 16:33:56 of them* 16:48:02 lysobit: you're missing the point 16:48:14 like, entirely 16:48:25 convincing congressmen is pointless when they operate within a broken framework 16:50:35 What about my first point? https://thedaywefightback.org/events/ 16:54:28 lysobit: from where is that linked? a nearly invisible button in the top menu, and a small link at the bottom of the page 16:54:39 So what? 16:54:50 lysobit: I think you'll find that those events are primarily a feedback loop, for that exact reason 16:54:54 It still proves the premise your argument is wrong 16:55:01 How exactly is the UI design relevant? 16:55:01 * joepie91 sighs 16:55:03 no, it doesn't 16:55:05 * lysobit sighs 16:55:06 what 16:55:07 Yes, it does 16:55:08 how is it not 16:55:10 ... 16:55:31 lysobit: how the fuck is UI design not relevant when you are talking about an 'awareness campaign' and whether people are encouraged to do something more than signing a fucking petition 16:55:42 UI design is the fucking backbone of the entire campaign 16:56:19 Because the events are still happening regardless of UI design, thus the premise of your argument is invalid: there is non-armchair activism going on, regardless of UI design 16:56:46 You are now arguing about the effectiveness of the non-armchair activism, but my point is it still exists 16:58:03 lysobit: that is why I said lysobit: I think you'll find that those events are primarily a feedback loop, for that exact reason 16:58:15 yes, there is "non-armchair activism" going on 16:58:17 What do you mean "feedback loop"? 16:58:21 but it will not accomplish anything 16:58:22 right 16:58:32 a feedback loop as in, it will attract those people who were already interested in it anyway 16:58:35 they would have found the link 16:58:38 through their own social circles 16:58:42 who are already involved in the matter 16:58:45 18<joepie9118> a feedback loop as in, it will attract those people who were already interested in it anyway 16:58:47 uh, what is wrong with that? 16:59:04 People who are interested in each other meeting to discuss and solve an issue IRL = catalyst for change 16:59:06 lysobit: that it's the same people who were already involved in it anyway, regardless of whether this day exists or not 16:59:18 it's great that it happens 16:59:25 but thedaywefightback doesn't actively contribute to it 16:59:28 and has a giant missed chance there 16:59:52 Well the event I'm going to aims to teach non-tech-savvy people to encrypt their main. That includes journalists and the like. 16:59:53 my post would've been worded very differently if they'd actively and prominently invited people to attend an event 16:59:57 but they didn't 17:00:22 lysobit: when you're there, please ask around about the knowledge/interests/etc. of the people there 17:00:30 and whether they've been in contact with any related organizations/people before this event 17:00:49 unless I'm massively misinterpreting something here, you'll find that they are not "new people" 17:00:54 even if they are not tech savvy 17:00:55 Your blog post is still factually wrong, though, regardless of how much they're promoting it "and nothing more than feel-good armchair activism" 17:02:03 The events are called "The day we fight back". I don't see how you could claim that it's not linked to "The day we fight back". 17:02:28 lysobit: I heard about "The day we fight back" but not about _any_ AFK events 17:02:43 Yes, I agree it could be better advertised 17:03:01 I only infact heard of it IRL from other Londoners 17:03:05 rather than the website 17:21:51 GUYS, I have to go now, but..... I think I've just found the better maths website I've EVER seen! mathinsight.org !! 17:22:05 I think if you're kinda interested in maths, you may check it out 17:22:18 but: I don't know what's the minimum level of knowledge required to read those things 17:22:28 But I read that there also are "narrative" articles 17:22:44 so, whatever, if somebody is just curious about maths, go check it out 17:22:50 cya later/soon! 17:22:55 *** monod has quit (User quit: quitting) 17:57:28 *** Zekka (zekka@Zekka.users.cryto) has joined #crytocc 18:11:48 *** Zekka has quit (Ping timeout) 18:17:43 04FichteFoll made 2 commit(s) to 03package_control_channel on branch 10master: '02Make FileZilla SFTP Import available in ST3', '02Merge pull request #2808 from ment4list/masterMake FileZilla SFTP Import available in ST3' (https://github.com/wbond/package_control_channel/compare/b622aaf2db...1f7e2e7b64) 18:27:53 *** beowulf (b220b564@cryto-6BD3BA7.mibbit.com) has joined #crytocc 19:05:04 *** fanat1ck (fanat1ck@cryto-F3FB4A96.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com) has joined #crytocc 19:06:26 *** fanat1ck has quit (User quit: Connection closed) 19:16:44 *** Zekka (zekka@cryto-746ACA86.arizona.edu) has joined #crytocc 19:46:09 04FichteFoll made 2 commit(s) to 03package_control_channel on branch 10master: '02add Colorcoder package for ST2', '02Merge pull request #2809 from vprimachenko/masteradd Colorcoder package for ST2' (https://github.com/wbond/package_control_channel/compare/1f7e2e7b64...0111d799e8) 20:11:00 *** AnonyOps has quit (Ping timeout) 20:16:24 *** AnonyOps (anonyops@cryto-839FCCA3.cinci.res.rr.com) has joined #crytocc 20:25:45 *** beowulf has quit (User quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client) 20:47:35 *** iceTwy (iceTwy@iceTwy.users.cryto) has joined #crytocc 20:48:08 @OccupyWallSt has turned into shit since Justine Tunney got it back 20:48:20 *** Zekka has quit (Ping timeout) 20:48:52 she completely hijacked the movement's public face 20:53:57 *** lblissett has quit (Ping timeout) 20:56:05 what a clown 20:56:06 https://pay.reddit.com/r/anonymous/comments/1xmf9x/february_11th_2014_the_day_we_do_nothing_of/ 20:56:22 iceTwy: http://cryto.net/~joepie91/blog/2014/02/11/the-day-we-do-nothing-of-consequence/ 20:58:22 hmm 20:58:34 well yeah 20:58:44 there were those protests back in December, in Washington DC 20:59:12 nothing changed after those 20:59:35 the only way to pwn the NSA would be through courts 20:59:58 now I think there's one point you missed joepie91 21:01:35 if, at least, nothing is done of consequence today, this day will create a sort of gathering 21:02:03 not that it's a viable gathering in any way, but people are spreading whatever EFF says 21:02:23 iceTwy: there is about a bazillion ways to accomplish that 21:02:27 almost all of which would be more effective than this 21:02:35 a gathering is a given with any form of social interaction around an issue 21:02:37 so I guess that's always a bit useful for EFF, in order to prove the point that people - some of them at least - are outraged 21:02:43 well you've got it 21:02:44 so I don't consider a gathering in itself to be significant in this context 21:02:51 scoail interaction on a social network 21:02:54 social* 21:03:05 it is an extremely weak interaction 21:03:07 ... I said social interaction, not social network 21:03:13 uh 21:03:26 I'd happily say "welcome to the 21st century" 21:03:27 social networks, despite the name, typically do not involve much significant social interaction 21:03:32 well 21:03:41 they do, but it's an extremely weak interaction as I said 21:03:42 which is my #1 gripe with facebook etc. 21:03:54 *** Mabo (Mabo@cipolla895.users.cryto) has joined #crytocc 21:03:56 iceTwy: everything that involves two people does 21:03:57 it's essentially similar to saying "hi, what's up" to someone IRL 21:03:58 so does a blog post 21:04:02 not even that 21:04:11 ciaoa tutti 21:04:15 a passive way to do that then 21:04:16 .welcome Mabo 21:04:17 Mabo: welcome to #crytocc! Please be aware that this channel is publicly logged, and make sure to read the rules in the channel topic. You may hide messages from the public logs by prefixing them with [off]. 21:04:18 hey there Mabo 21:04:38 iceTwy: the thing is that "whoo social interaction" or "whoo gathering" is not a productive outcome in itself 21:04:39 ma รจ chiuso #cipolla ? 21:04:40 it's just a characteristic 21:04:52 .tr ma ่ chiuso #cipolla 21:04:53 joepie91: "but it is closed # onion" (it to en, translate.google.com) 21:04:58 joepie91: yeah that's what I'm saying 21:04:59 Mabo: I have no idea 21:05:13 I don't maintain the channel, and it's not related to this channel 21:05:14 nothing will really come out of that day, if it isn't at least a false sense of gathering 21:05:26 and pretty much, as you pointed out, a false sense of making things move forward 21:05:38 iceTwy: that's my problem 21:05:42 it's an excuse for people to stop caring 21:05:47 whether consciously or not 21:06:02 and I find it incredible that after years and years of this, it's still not obvious to people 21:06:11 couldn't agree more than that 21:06:45 and that's the same thing with SOPA/PIPA/TPP/etc 21:07:48 when one of those treaties is merely "killed" through collective outrage, another spawns 21:08:21 where collective outrage is the whole deal that's made around these treaties by activist organizations 21:08:49 iceTwy: well yes, that's what my post 10 months ago was about 21:09:48 yeah, what EFF & co are doing today is the same thing they've done with SOPA/etc 21:10:04 though here's the issue, the problem is MUCH bigger than just a treaty this time 21:10:18 thanks 21:10:19 :) 21:10:34 *** Mabo has parted #crytocc (None) 21:10:50 iceTwy: heh, you could say that 21:11:21 though, erm 21:11:36 (http://web.missouri.edu/~segerti/capstone/Slacktivism.pdf) 21:11:49 did the US government actually endorse those treaties and push for them to be enacted? 21:11:54 (i.e. SOPA, etc) 21:12:07 corporations did, but I can't remember whether the US government did 21:12:08 iceTwy: that's an ambiguous question 21:12:11 what is "the US government"? 21:12:20 well the NSA & co 21:12:31 too vague 21:12:51 because they would have given corporations a lot of power, and in turn, the NSA would have used that power (they'd have forced companies to let them use it) 21:12:52 I mean, in the most generic sense, the bills -originated- from the hand of somebody who is part of the US government 21:13:05 nah, from the US parliament 21:13:08 =/= govt 21:13:10 in the most generic sense, it's almost certainly a result of lobbying and could thus be said not to originate from govt 21:13:18 iceTwy: parliament is part of the government 21:13:22 is it 21:13:24 that's what I mean, "US govt" is very ambiguous 21:13:25 yes 21:13:30 dayum 21:13:33 "government" encompasses a -lot- of things 21:13:38 surely does 21:13:48 city council is also government 21:13:57 just local government 21:14:20 well either way, got my point? 21:14:37 it would have been so vicious lol 21:14:42 if it had happened 21:14:50 yes, but I don't think it matters much 21:15:55 hm, it would simply have given the NSA (a little bit) more power 21:21:02 iceTwy; that they could've (and probably have) gained through a million other ways 21:21:05 the bills aren't the problem 21:21:08 they're just a symptom 21:21:47 it's like complaining about all those useless access log entries, when in reality somebody just uploaded a shell to your shit and is now downloading all your files 21:25:32 sort of yeah 21:26:17 talking about millions of other ways 21:26:38 I'm still waiting to see the 1.7 million documents leaked by Snowden 21:26:48 fucking media >_> 21:31:39 iceTwy: in this one case, I can understand the release schedule 21:31:45 and this time, the outlets aren't fucking it up 21:32:13 they're doing it too slowly 21:32:20 they're not 21:32:30 seriously, if they need to have expert reviews on Snowden docs, then just ask relevant persons 21:32:31 they appear to be doing it at exactly the right pace 21:32:33 Micah Lee, Jacob Appelbaum & co 21:32:57 iceTwy: the Snowden documents are not really a technical matter 21:33:01 the right pace means that the release will come to an end in centuries 21:33:13 and, literally, centuries 21:33:31 to put it bluntly, the snowden document releases are a form of social engineering 21:33:40 very clever social engineering 21:33:43 erm 21:33:51 iceTwy: that is not very relevant 21:34:02 they could be. but before being given that meaning, they are/were official documents 21:34:08 it assumes a constant rate, and also has the unwritten assumption that the documents are not useful unless they are fully released 21:34:17 which, while correct for for example the stratfor dump 21:34:19 is not the case here 21:34:33 iceTwy: you don't get what I mean, I think 21:34:42 the Snowden docs aren't haphazardly thrown into a pile 21:34:58 they are very cleverly scheduled and released 21:35:06 it's like an endless cliffhanger 21:35:32 well, that we knew. we're experiencing it as we speak 21:35:47 iceTwy: that's what I mean 21:35:52 there is a method to the madness here 21:36:45 surely there is 21:37:21 but on the other hand media outlets are, in a way, responsible for allowing the NSA to perpetuate their shit 21:37:28 iceTwy: how? 21:37:33 because now that they've exposed outraging stuff done by the NSA 21:37:59 they need to expose /truly illegal/ stuff that can be easily used as evidence in court cases against the NSA 21:38:04 they're not doing so 21:38:18 and that allows the NSA to continue their activities despite going through a PR disaster 21:38:23 iceTwy: you do understand that you can't just walk into a court and go "lol look at this evidence from leaked docs"? 21:38:34 why not 21:38:35 not to mention that it's naive to think that that is the optimal solution 21:38:42 how? 21:38:47 uh, because it is illegitimately gained evidence? 21:38:54 re: first question 21:39:16 ah 21:39:19 well, yes 21:39:20 :/ 21:39:22 as for why it's naive... you are expecting the government to rein in the government from acting in the interests of the government 21:39:27 that's a pretty big fucking bet 21:39:35 when you have a once-in-a-lifetime cache of leaked documents 21:39:37 as your leverage 21:39:49 aka: 21:39:53 lerooooooooooooooooooooooooy jeeeeeeeeeeeeeenkinsssssss 21:40:16 iceTwy: or to phrase it differently, "there's no bribing the judge in the court of public opinion" 21:40:53 or I should say, no exclusive bribing 21:41:35 here's how I bribe people, including judges: http://imgur.com/gallery/2kQcifM 21:42:04 lol 21:42:07 nice try 21:42:13 but yeah, iceTwy, do you understand what I mean? 21:42:19 wrt this being a clever approach 21:42:32 yeah 21:42:41 but I'm still frustrated 21:43:01 media outlets CAN release fully analyzed/decrypted documents 21:43:16 iceTwy: they'd give up their leverage. 21:43:43 but they're waiting. that's kind of horrible, but I'll admit that the positive side is that it causes long term outrage, gets widespread, & etc 21:44:04 iceTwy: when was the last time you saw something be in the news for 6 months? 21:44:54 sorry what? 21:45:03 iceTwy: as the question says 21:45:10 when was the last time you saw something in the news for 6 months? 21:45:19 oh 21:45:22 because that's what is happening with the NSA documents 21:45:33 a bunch of stuff, but local French stuff 21:45:36 & btw 8 months, not 6 21:45:46 was recalling from memory 21:45:49 figured I'd stick on the safe side 21:45:52 and I mean globally 21:46:23 yeah, not a lot of things 21:46:34 not anything I can vividly recall 21:46:46 I am honestly quite impressed with how they pulled this off 21:47:10 this whole NSA leak ordeal is pretty much textbook "this is how you social engineer a mass of people" 21:47:23 (you could call it "propaganda", but that carries an irrational negative connotation with it for many people_) 21:55:00 *** Stassi has quit (User quit: Leaving) 21:59:20 *** monod (~pmpf@monod.users.cryto) has joined #crytocc 21:59:44 hello 21:59:52 loggy, how are you today? :P 21:59:56 loggy, pointer? 21:59:56 http://wire.cryto.net/logs/crytocc/2014-02-11#T21-59-56 22:02:06 loggy has no soul 22:02:09 :( 22:04:06 :( 22:04:29 lol 22:05:06 not until AI programming will be on the to-do list >:) 22:06:00 * joepie91_ drops a pin 22:06:01 - Cannot send to channel (you're muted) (#anonops) 22:06:02 * joepie91 sighs 22:15:34 <_Astro_>i hate porn,they give viruses. >:( 22:15:35 so do real women 22:15:46 lulz 22:16:31 *** ElectRo` has quit (Ping timeout) 22:28:29 *** ElectRo` (x@cryto-9C8C6C74.torservers.net) has joined #crytocc 22:41:01 *** mama has quit (Ping timeout) 22:41:51 I gottttta go 22:41:53 gotta sleep actually 22:42:03 I can't do that sitting here unfortunately :) 22:42:24 *** monod has quit (User quit: byeeeeeeeeeeEE!) 22:42:38 *** mama (me@cryto-202E9B7A.org) has joined #crytocc 22:48:44 *** Moh has quit (Ping timeout) 22:48:44 *** ElectRo` has quit (Ping timeout) 22:48:44 *** mama has quit (Ping timeout) 22:48:44 *** joepie91 has quit (Ping timeout) 22:48:44 *** boiyd has quit (nexus.cryto.net box.cryto.net) 22:49:24 *** boiyd (boiyd@206CF2F6.AA517E7E.DB3C1458.IP) has joined #crytocc 22:49:33 *** ElectRo` (x@cryto-D9D7E1A.cloudsigma.com) has joined #crytocc 22:52:16 04FichteFoll made 3 commit(s) to 03package_control_channel on branch 10master: '02Fixed Sublime Tweet record', '02Sublime Tweet: underscore to space, corrected github url', '02Merge pull request #2810 from rozboris/masterFixed Sublime Tweet record' (https://github.com/wbond/package_control_channel/compare/0111d799e8...2c3d4d3868) 22:55:10 *** Moh (Happax@FC4291B6.E33CEB64.57D2FD60.IP) has joined #crytocc 22:57:10 *** mama (me@cryto-7A26ADAA.torservers.net) has joined #crytocc 22:57:10 *** joepie91 (joepie91@5C4B2CE4.B8E60B3B.FD9B6484.IP) has joined #crytocc 22:57:41 mama: had some heavy packet loss for a moment 22:58:29 i see it is resolved now :) 22:59:31 I guess 23:12:47 *** Zekka (zekka@cryto-746ACA86.arizona.edu) has joined #crytocc 23:23:45 *** mama has quit (Client exited) 23:24:12 *** mama (me@cryto-FAFB75BA.torproject.afo-tm.org) has joined #crytocc 23:39:20 .... wow http://www.zdnet.com/mozilla-to-deliver-ads-in-its-firefox-browser-7000026216/ 23:40:50 *** iceTwy has quit (User quit: WeeChat 0.4.3)