00:00:20 nope 00:00:33 well, it's in my bookmarks so scratch that 00:00:55 it appears to have nice marketing copy 00:05:03 *** rmrfbuck (rmrfbuck@cryto-ED11C75B.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com) has joined #crytocc 00:05:31 indeed 00:05:42 and a nice, simple, osx like interface 00:05:45 what I want 00:06:25 *** rmrfbuck has quit (User quit: Connection closed) 00:07:51 * dorotea nods 00:38:36 man, suckerpunch is so great 00:49:37 lol 00:49:50 it's ridiculous 00:50:31 I do like the analysis of it being a critique of modern feminism and sexism though 00:52:23 yes 00:52:36 I mostly just like the amazing mixed warfare scenes 00:52:44 it's amazing that they're analogies too 00:53:01 mmhmm 00:53:26 quite excellent action 00:53:47 I was commenting elsewhere, if I'm ever in a war I'mma paint an orange turtle on the front of my mech 00:55:08 then again, I'd only ever get to do frontlines shit if I got to embrace my inner pyro 00:55:30 I'd be down for a mech 00:55:34 ora sniper 00:55:47 I want multistage explosives 00:56:06 with cores that can burn through a tank 00:56:13 I won't accept anything less 00:56:23 what's that shit called again 00:56:32 something -ite 00:56:35 thermite? 00:56:38 idk, it's what our current anti-tank tank rounds use 00:56:38 yes 00:56:43 thermite's one of em 00:56:48 :) 00:56:52 >:) 00:56:58 >:D 00:57:11 you put a directed explosive in the front of your shell to fire thermite into the tank armor as it impacts 00:57:25 with a lovely little magnesium core 00:58:35 it's either that or I get to play insurgent like the cats in libya. assholes mounted a stolen tank barrel/firing mechanism on a structure they welded onto the back of a toyota 00:58:54 you back it up to a wall to fire 00:59:05 (otherwise you'd flip the truck) 00:59:47 jesus 01:00:02 like so http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xlfl31SJYiA 01:00:07 (that's a video of it firing) 01:00:51 I just can't stop laughing from that video 01:03:51 yeah? 01:03:53 It's interesting though because every piece of tech we make that's like ninja grade (like pickup-truck firable missiles) ends up in "terrorists"/"freedom fighters" hands 01:04:06 kiiiiiinda funny (not haha) 01:05:27 think someone's playing both sides? 01:06:02 we are, always 01:06:32 if there's one thing I've learned it's that any aid we give always has a motive, and strings attached 01:07:10 Aid has changed a lot since the cold war, but we do still use it politically at times 01:07:32 no, other countries "use it politically at times". the US /only/ uses it politically. 01:07:50 we don't give aid if it doesn't benefit us 01:07:54 the Gates foundation would disagree 01:08:06 the gates foundation is poisoning africa to death 01:08:09 lol 01:08:22 they're rolling neoliberalism and monsanto pesticides out everywhere 01:08:27 hmm, why do you think that? 01:08:28 their motives aren't uh beneficial 01:08:51 their work with diseases and shit is top notch 01:09:21 but the other side, their ag work is more than a little problematic 01:09:58 because they use biomodified plants? GMOs aren't inherently bad 01:10:03 nope 01:10:08 I didn't say gmos 01:10:13 I said monsanto pesticides 01:10:28 hmm 01:10:29 roundup fucks everything up 01:10:51 people and the environment 01:10:54 fair. I'd like to see data on the environmental impact. 01:11:09 I mean shit, they have to make roundup ready seeds because otherwise their herbicide kills the crops 01:11:09 lulz 01:11:34 well that's kind of the point 01:11:37 :p 01:11:48 I know, but it's literally the definition of ecological destruction 01:11:49 lol 01:12:08 so like sure if you could only spray it on the plants that needed to go away it'd maybe be okay 01:12:09 but you can't 01:12:18 and it gets into the water supply and all that 01:12:40 If it's contained it might not be too bad. We've been using it in the States for some time and the results aren't terrible, yet. 01:12:43 It's not ideal 01:12:49 but Africa needs food 01:13:07 they have food 01:13:14 we're not trying to give them food 01:13:20 they can support themselves just fine with that already 01:13:34 we're trying to set them up so they can export 01:13:49 because we don't count selfsufficiency as monetary gain 01:14:02 gotta export to get money to buy other shit 01:14:07 which is good. We did it to China, and it raised 1/6th of the world's population out of poverty. 01:14:11 but if you just grew everything yourself, you might not need money 01:14:16 It's mutually beneficial. 01:14:24 I don't agree 01:14:58 but either way, I think they can do it with what they have already 01:15:07 their plants are already very well adapted to the conditions 01:15:18 and they tolerate climate change better than our GMO ones do, ironically 01:16:08 I wish our biotech firms would start doing what farmers have been doing for ages -- engineering plants resistant to natural stuff. salt resistant rice, drought resistant grains, etc 01:16:15 we're starting too, but jeez it's a bit late 01:16:21 s/too/to/ 01:16:40 fuckers need to get a move on 01:17:10 yeah 01:17:12 like, plants adapt to changing conditions in around 4 years. It'd be awesome if we could just-in-time the correct seeds for that season's challenges 01:17:15 that would be /the/ shit 01:17:25 but everyone just wants to sell pesticides/herbicides 01:17:25 :| 01:17:56 I've got absolutely no problem with GMO's if that's what we're using them for 01:18:07 fair enough 01:18:08 it's this bullshit with resistance to herbicides and whatever that is silly 01:18:30 unlike most, I'm not really an extremist with this stuff 01:18:44 but I also see the problems with GMOs as not having anything directly to do with gmos 01:19:02 bananas 01:19:15 ;) 01:19:21 incentives for corps right now are to make gmos resistant to herbicides or something, and then also be the company selling those herbicides 01:19:37 if we could change that incentive, I think for example monsanto could be a fantastic corp 01:19:49 lotta smart people working on drought resistance and shit? awesome! 01:20:01 absolutely, but that's hard to change with the current structure 01:20:06 yep 01:20:11 gene manipulation should be open source 01:20:13 hmm 01:20:18 that's why I do a lot of hmmhmm with this shit 01:20:22 cause I'm not sure how to proceed 01:20:23 how long till we can print seeds? 01:20:37 probably another 10 years, tbh, but I don't know 01:20:49 we've come quite a ways in 30, but like 01:20:51 still a ways to go 01:21:31 but it's like monsanto just dropped 1.1bn on a climate forcasting and crop insurance company 01:21:40 in the meantime I Monsanto is gunna do what it does, and we are going to keep trying to build up Africa for exporting. Like I said, I think that's good for both of us. 01:21:44 like, in cash 01:21:47 lol 01:22:01 I don't want to continue neoliberalism though 01:22:07 it's fucking broken 01:22:24 what specifically is broken about it? 01:22:39 I can't write all that on irc hahaha 01:22:40 thousands of pages 01:22:44 but like 01:22:49 a few examples 01:23:35 *** monod has quit (User quit: ) 01:23:50 so for one thing, it's based on a few assumptions we know to be wrong or problematic: rational actors, deregulation of all markets 01:24:06 roughly, completely free trade as well 01:24:13 the problem is that's not what we do 01:24:41 we don't have rational actors, deregulating markets only happens in "emerging" or "underdeveloped" economies, which fucks their populaces 01:24:49 (see jamaica) 01:25:10 I can agree with that. Those are simplified models of economics that don't account for reality. 01:25:17 yep 01:25:35 but it's unfortunately how the establishment operates right now 01:25:41 like always it's changing, but always too slowly 01:26:04 I suspect that all of history has been like that thus far, though 01:26:09 *** warned has quit (Ping timeout) 01:26:14 mmhmm ;) 01:26:19 *** warned (warned@cryto-54326F0E.ipredator.se) has joined #crytocc 01:26:35 continually moving towards something better, while also naturally also continually stuck in a state of not-quite-there-yet because "something better" is a moving target 01:27:07 which is why it becomes incredibly important just to give a shit and try to move forward 01:27:25 faster rate of change makes that particular flavor of awkwardness last shorter 01:27:46 last less time, however you say that 01:28:11 and it's the irony that every generation thinks its worse than the previous, and historically it's almost never been the case 01:28:28 so why do you think using Africa as the next industrial base of the world would necessarily continue neoliberalism? Would it necessarily be bad for the continent? 01:28:31 crime rates plunge, death rates plunge, war counts plunge, etc 01:28:48 because we're imposing it on them 01:29:23 not-even-built-industries trying to compete with the US or .eu isn't a fair bet 01:29:35 never has been, never will be 01:30:12 neoliberalism goes great with our current form of capitalism which requires ever-expanding markets to continue running 01:30:35 at some point we're going to run out of markets, and shit is gonna hit the fan 01:30:48 hopefully we'll adapt 01:30:59 oh yeah, and people are already trying to figure alternatives 01:31:07 but like any major transition, it'll hurt either way 01:31:12 have been for some time 01:31:19 the question will be how much, not if 01:31:21 I do believe that was the point of communism 01:31:32 marxism, yeah 01:31:35 not communism :P 01:31:44 but, good capitalists listened to marx 01:31:45 well, they tried 01:32:06 he had some very good critiques of capitalism, critiques which are reflected in the capitalism we have today 01:32:41 (of course his solutions may or may not be bullshit depending on your view, but the critiques were good no matter) 01:33:14 whiiiich reminds me 01:33:19 I should do some gpe reading tonight 01:33:20 :3 01:33:44 any economic solution that was theorized and not observed is imo bullshit 01:34:53 Smith observed a system and came up with basic rules of thumb that it followed. Marx tried to think of a system, and his solution was ultimately a fantasy that couldn't be implemented due to basic structural flaws. 01:34:54 *** warned has quit (Client exited) 01:35:10 I can cut much more of your sentence off and still be correct 01:35:16 "any economic solution is bullshit" 01:35:21 lol 01:35:23 economics is only one facet of the problem 01:35:37 you will never have a complete solution if economics is the only thing you look at 01:35:46 (which also happens to be a fantastic critique of marx) 01:35:48 economics should be considered rules of thumb, not hard lines as other sciences 01:35:59 but they are based in some amount of reason and evidence 01:36:01 well, we're starting to have good economic models 01:36:14 for instance, centralized economies do not scale well 01:36:17 but they're coming out of "behavioral economics", and they're based on social psychology and sociology 01:36:28 mm, that makes the most sense 01:36:49 if you want to dip into it some weekend, "prospect theory" is a great place to start 01:37:12 (it's also my favorite theory in econ, besides elasticity anyway) 01:37:52 *** Philosoraptor (user@Philosoraptor.users.cryto) has joined #crytocc 01:37:56 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elasticity_%28economics%29 01:38:03 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prospect_theory 01:42:11 if we could use behavioral economics to get a handle on micro economics, we could prolly do well with macro using simulations 01:42:37 yep 01:43:00 the issue there is anyone who follows austrian economics refuses modelling 01:43:25 it's a core tenet of mises and co 01:43:48 I'd like to see conservative and liberal models emerge 01:43:56 because that'd be epic for comparison 01:44:05 just to see which situations work best for which models 01:45:06 wait 01:45:08 what 01:45:17 austrian's are stupid 01:45:44 well, like 7 of their stated assumptions are wrong, so I can't disagree 01:46:16 sorry, I got swarmed by austrians trying to coopt the occupy I was at 01:46:33 What do you think of Keynesian economics? 01:46:34 somebody had to be informed about their theories, because they sure weren't 01:46:45 lol 01:46:45 it's incomplete 01:47:41 I mean it was useful at the time 01:48:06 made the crash much less bad and set up the infrastructure that became our national pride during the next 70 years 01:48:11 can't have been too horrible 01:48:27 yeah. From an analysis I heard, it was stagflation in the 70s that made people drop keynesian policies and hop onboard neoliberalism. I think that it had issues, but it worked well enough. 01:48:41 yeah 01:48:45 didn't justify a complete 180 01:49:05 well, and we ran into dollar overhang pretty badly 01:49:25 realizing that was an issue is what made us go full retard imo 01:49:48 (which is literally the reason I'm excited about bitcoin, because it's impossible in bitcoin) 01:50:04 dollar overhang? 01:50:08 yeah 01:50:12 it's why we got off the gold standard 01:50:34 if everyone sets the USD as reserve currency, we have to be able to back all of their transactions AND ours. with gold. 01:50:34 oh, would that be deflation related? 01:50:49 oh 01:50:55 that becomes problematic because there isn't enough gold for that 01:50:58 yeah that would be hard 01:51:01 yeah 01:51:07 I mean sum total there is enough 01:51:14 but like, we can't /get/ enough of it 01:51:57 (and if we did, it'd fuck everything else up as well, because then one country would have all the gold. so why have gold convertibility if only one nation has it? derp) 01:52:23 we'd be like debeers 01:52:28 lol 01:52:41 (who owns 85+% of diamonds) 01:53:42 oh, another economic theory that's really instructive is the Diamond water paradox http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_value 01:54:27 that one's fun because you can go read eg: locke's labor theory of value attempt to explain it 01:54:48 get into some nice founding-father philosophy 01:55:13 (mostly as a way to show how fucking queer it is that we idolize them) 01:57:02 mass politics man 01:57:04 but idk I'm biased, I've actually read some of their work 01:57:10 Mao was a master of it 01:57:29 speaking of mao, I read a very interesting book a few years back 01:57:45 "mao's way", it's a book about the cultural revolution ostensibly from his perspective 01:57:47 people are like repeaters. Give them a could ideas and watch the chaos spread... 01:57:49 reaaaaaally fucking interesting 01:57:55 hmm 01:58:03 that does sound interesting 01:58:05 rice is the author 01:58:22 http://www.amazon.com/Maos-Way-Edward-E-Rice/dp/0520021991 01:58:23 Mao was a romantic idealist 01:58:37 I'm a fan of Deng Xioaping tbh 01:58:41 huh, that's what the book is supposed to look like 01:58:44 funky 01:58:47 mine has no cover :D 01:59:14 pragmatic to the core 01:59:15 huh 01:59:18 neat 01:59:30 yeah that book's tons of military and political strategy 01:59:31 pretty much 01:59:59 politics was Mao's strong point. Great for a revolution, not so great for after. 02:00:09 He held the nation back until his death 02:00:42 lol needed a partner in crime 02:01:18 he had a few, they were usually eventually branded "counter-revolutionaries" and thrown out 02:01:28 :/ 02:01:41 his cult of personality was the biggest problem 02:02:01 note to self, in case of revolution prevent cults of personality at all cost 02:02:54 :P 02:03:14 chavez's went over pretty well 02:03:56 Dunno enough about Venezuela to comment. I'm skeptical, but I've heard arguements on both sides and none of them seem to be without bias. 02:04:21 We'll see where the nation goes in the future. I honestly hope it works for themp. 02:04:38 * dorotea nods 02:08:43 * dorotea fights with google analytics 02:13:47 really? 02:13:54 my analytics were broken because of a semicolon 02:13:59 lol 02:14:00 god damnit dynamic languages 02:14:07 use strict 02:14:13 what's that 02:14:26 https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Reference/Functions_and_function_scope/Strict_mode 02:14:39 <3 js 02:15:01 will it blow errors into my console with strict? 02:15:06 cause that's what I want 02:15:06 lol 02:15:19 oh what 02:15:24 you use it inside a function 02:15:25 funky 02:15:29 there will be errors for things like semicolons 02:15:37 you can use it globally I think 02:15:52 but no type checking still. Check out typescript for that. 02:17:08 * dorotea fights 02:17:39 what in the 02:18:02 * dorotea googles 02:18:20 oh right 02:18:27 javascript doesn't really have typing 02:18:44 I mean people claim it does, but if I can put var in front of something and ignore the type for a while... no 02:18:56 heh 02:19:06 I have only had issues with that like, once 02:19:27 it's awesome, because everything is an object and I just throw objects around 02:19:34 named parameters :) 02:19:46 I don't even know what that is 02:19:55 I'm just writing shit in a file which gets autopushed to my server 02:19:58 and sometimes it works 02:19:59 so you can do like so 02:20:36 function(url, data, option1, option2, option3...) 02:20:44 yeah, ga does that 02:20:44 and calling that is messy as hell 02:21:04 but you can just pass an object, no need for it to be a particular type 02:21:05 I've got like 02:21:07 ga('set', { 02:21:07 'timingCategory': 'perceivedload', 02:21:07 'timingVar': 'perceivedload', 02:21:07 'timingValue': page_load_time 02:21:07 }); 02:21:24 mmhmm :) 02:21:25 ahh 02:21:34 (that's where the missing semicolon was, by the way >_> ) 02:21:39 named parameters, makes code so much nicer to read. 02:21:41 lol 02:21:50 beautiful! 02:21:52 it works! 02:21:55 even with strict! 02:22:00 so, does it ping ga 02:22:03 that is the question 02:22:23 you know how to check your requests? 02:22:27 * dorotea wants his own timing data because ga's timing data display sucks 02:22:30 network tab on chrome 02:22:35 oh, yeah 02:22:40 coo 02:22:41 but like 02:22:56 it's an extremely ugly get 02:23:10 * dorotea uses analytics.js not ga.js or urchin.js 02:23:42 how much coding you do? 02:23:57 HA FOUND IT 02:24:03 I tend to tell people none 02:24:10 utc:perceivedload 02:24:11 utv:perceivedload 02:24:11 utt:226 02:24:12 FOUND IT 02:24:23 PING PING, MOTHERFUCKER 02:24:28 :3 02:24:43 you seem to know enough to work your way around it though 02:24:47 aren't a nub 02:24:57 hmm 02:25:02 correct! 02:25:23 I have dabbled in enough programming to be dangerous, but not always useful 02:25:39 I tend to tell people I don't do it much because then they start out earlier in the "depth of information" chain 02:26:01 ? 02:26:04 which is good, because I get a refresher and clarification on things I didn't understand without being scolded for not knowing it 02:26:18 ah 02:26:32 It is my observation that people who program are very arrogant. 02:26:50 So, I ask questions this way and they can feel like they're a great person 02:26:58 I get info, they get warm fuzzy feeling, everyone's happy 02:27:11 :P 02:27:24 now the question is, why does it fire the ping twice 02:27:30 people who program tend to be very sure of things, and we expect everyone around us to know what we know 02:27:37 *** mama has quit (Ping timeout) 02:27:38 *** warned (warned@cryto-F0B078A2.torservers.net) has joined #crytocc 02:27:40 but we love explaining things to nubs 02:28:05 :D 02:28:09 That's why I play nub :D 02:28:20 heh, see you found the loophole 02:28:31 yes! 02:28:31 :D 02:28:59 I can just omit my assembly and C programming experience in exchange for information 02:29:02 it works great 02:29:28 (and java, perl, ruby, python) 02:29:53 I love me some compiler though 02:29:55 I'm trying to work on the patience side of things. I don't want to come off as arrogant. 02:30:11 nothing like that swift kick in the balls when you've messed up a semicolon 02:30:16 * dorotea nods 02:30:26 I'm not targeting specifically you with it, just all programming questions 02:30:58 people that will be patient will always be patient, and those that aren't are susceptible to my exploit :D 02:31:11 yeah, I get that it's not about me. That's more of a reflection on my own life. 02:31:27 I can be pretty hard to work with. Getting better at it though. 02:31:54 okay, visually diffing the requests the differences are in the sequence number (1, 2, makes sense) and the classification of request. one is pageview and one is timing, even though both carry both infos 02:32:23 other than those two get params, the requests are identical 02:32:24 :| 02:36:22 * dorotea checks to see if he's accidentally sending twice 02:37:41 I do that one quite a bit 02:38:30 it looks like not 02:38:41 gist your code? 02:38:50 I mean unless their analytics script that gets pulled in autosends 02:38:58 haha git 02:39:25 I've used git about once per year, not hated it any less each time 02:39:41 gist is just like a pastebin on github 02:39:49 also git is awesome once you get it 02:40:00 but the learning curve is... painful 02:40:09 that's what everyone tells me, but I only use it once per year max 02:40:23 I don't publish my code in a code-sharing way 02:40:31 * dorotea doesn't know how to phrase that 02:40:39 fair enough 02:40:58 but if you gist/pastebin your code I can take a look, see if I can figure it out 02:41:06 like, open licenses, self-documenting code... but I only post it when it's running 02:41:06 don't even gotta use git 02:41:20 yeah, I'm just tweaking some shit haha 02:41:30 I can just link you to it, but I've gotta see if this change I just made breaks it 02:41:31 lol 02:41:54 excellent! 02:41:57 https://mirror.explodie.org/javascripts/analytics.js 02:41:59 have at it 02:42:13 no docs tho 02:42:20 like // 02:42:23 haven't written them yet 02:43:30 the stringify's don't work in ff tho 02:43:35 hmm 02:43:41 because it doesn't represent those as objects :D 02:43:49 not seeing anything wrong, but i don't use ga 02:43:59 (because it sided with IE in how to implement the interface, and the interface was not specified in the spec. :| ) 02:44:20 at some point I'll figure out how to access the data in firefox... 02:44:52 something about the data being attributes of the properties' super 02:44:55 whatever that term is 02:44:59 prototype! 02:45:01 that's the word 02:46:11 and it looks ugly as fuck to use 02:46:20 so I stuck with chrome's shit simple version for the moment 02:46:57 lol 02:47:12 prototype inheritance is fun 02:47:17 weird, but fun 02:48:00 yeah my friend tried to explain it a few times years ago 02:48:18